Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Estate Agents' boards advertising school fetes
I've no doubt school fetes are worthy activities, but do people really need to let estate agents get free advertising by allowing them to set up their hideous boards on their property in return for advertising school fetes. There was even one attached to the rails at the end of a section of Harringay Passageway. Do people find them pretty?
Tags for Forum Posts: estate agents signs, school summer fair signs
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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@Birdy: I'm not prepared to shaft my kids because of some idealistic notion.
I think that was David Lammy's response when Adam asked him whether or not he would send his kids to the local school. I hope you voted for him.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Look, I understand where John is coming from despite the emotive language. However, what do we object to about the boards? If you are saying that boards are always wrong even when they are employed legitimately to advertise that a house is for sale, then nothing we say will convince you and presumably if you were selling your house, you would prevent the EA from having a sign up outside it.
Or do we object to the misuse of boards? Leaving them up too long, fly boarding, putting them on the faces of old buildings like the Salisbury, festooning Grand Parade with LET by signs, not collecting ones that have fallen down so that they end up chucked in the street, putting up giant signs and banners on the sides of buildings, or affixing them to street furniture. These are all the things that I object to and will continue to object to.
I was uncomfortable the first year with displaying one, to be honest, after all I said about visual pollution but like Helen says, the kids are actually pleased that you are visibly supporting the school and neighbours even commented on the attractiveness of the board - fortunately, it was the year we had a really nice board- so I think we could do more to ensure the board is less of a giant ad for the EA and more of an advert for the school's artistic skills - to combat the ugly charge. North Harringay's board was lovely this year, Martyn Gerrard was the villain of the piece for the railing trick (like I said complain, they may not even have known their board sticker upper had done that), most of our boards could have looked better. Those comments were made in our last meeting and we do have plans to do something about making our board more attractive.
However, Steve H has also pointed out to me that boards are actually quite an expensive way to do this and is thinking about alternatives. If any other Estate agents are reading this and are interested in joining the discussion, I, for one, am ready to listen.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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If you are saying that boards are always wrong even when they are employed legitimately to advertise that a house is for sale, - NO
Or do we object to the misuse of boards - YES
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Well, I wasn't just directing my question to you alone, John :) but to anyone reading who might feel as you do.
Anyway, presumably, you John (and others who agree with you), feel that school board sponsorship by EAs is a misuse? If yes, that is where we differ because I don't see it that way, but as a way for schools to raise funds. I don't see it as anti-social (unless an EA puts them where they haven't been agreed) and I don't feel that we are endorsing them but if a local business puts some cash the way of a community enterprise, they usually expect some sort of acknowledgement in the form of a mention on the thing they have put money towards. I'm okay with that but parents do have a choice about these boards - if they do not like them, they are not obliged to agree to have one.
There may be some businesses that we don't choose to deal with like fast food places because schools promote healthy eating but EAs don't generally have a direct negative impact on children, (although you may argue that, indirectly, the visual pollution does) and indeed if we are being entirely pragmatic and even a trifle cynical, it is in the interests of local EAs to support local schools as they are a factor in determining property values in an area - hence the ludicrous prices charged for house within spitting distance of Fortismere for example - which is what the (now disappeared) comments about grooming may have been about, that Andrew refers to.
I appreciate that this be uncomfortable reading for some since many people feel schools should not be associated with business at all but that is not what the current message from government says. We are facing budget cuts for basic services; all the 'lovely extras' that enrich the basic curriculum must come from us so I'm afraid most schools will continue to 'do business' with the EAs and take their board money. Welcome to the Big Society.
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Permalink Reply by Danzigger on
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I agree with John D:
this is about the misuse of boards. If the agents really cared about improving the schools on their patch, then a discreet donation to the school fair or the PSA would be a lovely gesture and would indirectly benefit the agents themselves by helping maintain the school and so increasing house prices.
But this scheme is merely a way for the agents to get cheap advertising, circumventing planning regs by exploiting the legitimate need of local schools for extra money.
Once we accept that planning regulations can be flexible and that visual pollution of the environment is acceptable if some greater good comes from it, then we the argument against excessive advertising is pretty much lost.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I hope this discussion doesn't get sidetracked in acrimony about language.
There are some hugely important issues here - which people do get angry about. But let's stick to the issues. Is the main purpose of the sponsored signs to advertise school fetes? Or to generate income?
These are particularly sensitive questions at a time of massive cuts. Several years ago I was the deputy lead councillor for housing. (These posts were stupidly abolished by the former Government.) A proposal was floated to sell billboard space on our housing estates - which we turned down. But commercial sponsorship and advertising is a tempting method of covering a budget gap and I imagine that many local authorities are currently exploring this option.
There's a parallel issue of how information about local community events is advertised. And, more widely, local arts, music and sporting events. Having what you might call hybrid signs could make it more difficult to enforce against rule-breaking; from estate agents to flyposters.
John_D asks what we're implicitly 'teaching' children. A fascinating question since many children are sharply aware of the hypocrisies of grown-ups: in this case, the gap between what we say and do."Papa, what is the moon supposed to advertise?" (Carl Sandburg, The People, Yes, 1936)
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Angela on
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The main purpose of the signs is to generate income but also to advertise school fetes.
I have been to several school fetes as a result of seeing them advertised on EA boards - thereby generating further income for the school (albeit a few quid). NHP even got a visit from a prospective parent on the strength of seeing one of our boards recently.
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Having had my say last year in what threatens to be a perennial summer discussion I've resisted the temptation this time. Maybe HOL should start charging £1 per word to every contributor pro or con School Fair EA boards with the takings split among SHS, NHS and Chestnuts. Even Angela's brief response above would amount to £20 per school!
Maybe, too, there's scope on HOL's Main Page for a 'Support a Local School' group, with simple links for HOL members to contribute to one or more of the three neighbourhood schools' fund-raising ventures.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Hatch on
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I agree, some sort of 'Support a local school' facility could work... maybe local businesses could be enticed into some match funding, making it a good all round effort with one acting as a stimulus for the other.
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Well with regard to the first idea, don't forget that the majority of money raised for schools is down to the generosity of the parents who buy things, make things and donate cash and goods throughout the year. All sorts of little things help, such as the effort people went to to give us Sainbury's vouchers (always assuming that's okay given the effect Sainsbury's has had on the neighbourhood!), baking some cakes to sell, donating things for raffles/gardens/libraries, not to mention time (you don't have to be part of the school, for example, to do a bit of Saturday gardening)
With regard to the second idea and Steve's suggestion, we'd have to give some thought to how it might work but its a possibility.
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Eddie, this is indeed one very practical alternative to commercial sponsorship/advertising of community and other not-for-profit events. Seems to me a bit like the U.S. National Public Radio -NPR - funding. And HoL, of course.
It still leaves the need to find (or create spaces) where community events can be publicised. Several years ago I saw some attractive artwork from local schools in the foot tunnels of a station near Whitechapel Road. And long before that Stanmore tube station also donated some of its advertising panels to displays from local schoolchildren. (I passed on these and other ideas to Haringey.)
Anyone spotted similar ideas used elsewhere?
Steve Hatch's suggestion about match funding is helpful. Many local traders will display small posters for non-profit local events inside their shops or even in the window.
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Alan, we have been asking local traders to put up posters for years and they are always happy to do this - they also give us a small gift for the raffle or tombola quite often.
Yasar Halim and Baldwins donate free or discounted food, local and national attractions offer free tickets or vouchers as raffle prizes etc
Similar to Liz, I'm not mad about EA boards but they do guarantee us an income in advance (the cost of setting up a Summer Fair for example can be a few hundred pounds).
And as Liz points out, the Summer Fair is one of many things that PSA's help with. We are not just about fundraising - our aim is also to encourage community and parental links with the school ( I believe community cohesion is the new fangled expression)
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