Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Council Tax summons
I've received a summons from Harringay council for non payment of council tax.
I received the original bill and forgot to pay it. I was expecting a reminder that never came.
Eventually I paid £800 in one go, but received the summons a week later.
I called and e-mailed the council, they said the reminder was sent and the summons fee of £125 applies.
Has anybody been in the same situation and successfully got the £125 summons fee overturned? Should I just let it go and pay?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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And this is the same council saying that it won't deal with pay-day lenders. Apart from the fact that you did not actively borrow the money, what's the difference here? This is still an outrageous level of usary and no wonder Wonga et al seem to feel aggrieved at the government's stance.
Look for Joe Goldberg on twitter. Nice guy and in charge of finances. I'm sure he will be able to help you out.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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If you didn't receive reminders, then I think you may have a case. If I understand this advice correctly, there should be three reminders in a year. I'm also not clear what the summons fee pays for so it is worth querying. They are basically applying for a liability order to make you pay. What does the court charge for this? Is is £125?
John, the council have powers to enforce payment including jail. Council tax is a priority debt and is exempted from the 6 yr rule. In fact, Haringey isn't particularly agressive in pursuing council tax to the point of bailiffs and jail but they are enforcing national legislation. The interesting point here is the summons fee. What is it for and how does that break down?
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Permalink Reply by B on
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Hi Liz,
According to Harringey £125 is the cost incurred to raise a summons. I wonder if they would give a breakdown if I asked for one.
When I called the council they asked me to e-mail them and told me that now I had been in touch not to worry about the summons and the court date.
In fact the court hearing went ahead without me being present. I received a letter saying that I was liable to pay reminder of the council tax and the £125. If I had known the hearing was going ahead I would have attended and would have tried to put my case forward.
I called harringay council after receiving the letter for the court, they told me it was just procedure and that they couldn't stop the case from going ahead. But they still told me not to worry, that all should be fine.
I ended paying the rest of my council tax before hearing back from them, but since I didn't receive the reminder I didn't expect the £125 to hold. They're now asking me to pay the £125 or warned me I would incur further charges.
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That's the point, I think. It does cost the council to apply for a liability order but how much? I doubt it's £125. Perhaps someone can tell us. Going to court probably wouldn't have made a great deal of difference since all the court would have been interested in would have been if you weren't liable i.e. not the person at the property or if you'd paid and the council said you hadn't. I think its worth finding out if you can about the fees and letting us know what you find out.
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If the matter went to Court and judgment went against you, you should check that you aren't now the possessor of a CCJ with all that entails on your credit history. To be frank, I'd just pay up what they've asked for to avoid any further charges and then continue your fight to get the charge returned.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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Never, never attempt to communicate with any element of Haringey Council and its aparatchiks by telephone. They will always lie to you. Only communicate in writing, preferably by letter, sent first class signed for, otherwise they will lie about it not being received. They lied to me for about five years over my mother-in-law's eligibility for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Relief, as a result of which we got massively into debt to pay her council tax and part of her rent for her. They have recently chased me for supposed council tax arrears, going back over eight years. I defended myself in the magistrates court, but the magistrates were incapable of following the arguments, did not know the basic law relating to council tax notification (they asked me to remind them of the law), and did not want to miss their lunch break, so terminated the hearing, and found in favour of the Council. I ended up going to see a local councillor about it, as they then started threatening to bankrupt me to force me to pay. They withdrew this threat and then said they would try to get a charging order. The way that works is that they go to the County Court, and are awarded an interim order. Then there is supposed to be a hearing at which you can go along and, in front of a judge in chambers, defend yourself against the charging order and have it removed. Since I saw my councillor (who was appalled at the way I had been treated), things have gone very quiet for about three months. Watch this space.
My advice regarding the department that collects tax is that they are a massively dysfunctional unit, with appalling lack of customer service. They treat the citizens of Haringey like serfs, who are just there to do what we are told, and to pay whatever outrageous charges they may conjure up out of thin air. There are other elements of Haringey Council which are at the least incompetent (Social Services, for example), but the Tax and Benefits department take the biscuit. Dealing with them is a truly Kafka-esque experience.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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I've had similar charges cancelled. It's not real money (except to you if you pay it). Keep on at them, they have at least part of the fault. It will then disappear off your statement. Who are your councillors? they get paid to sort out such things. As said above, watch out for CCJs.
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Permalink Reply by Madeline on
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Why do we have to pay for it in advance?
I was sent a reminder but no bill so I phoned them. They tried to explain the odd payments to me and then said they'd send me a bill. All that they sent was a direct debit form for me to fill in, no actual bill. Now I too have a summons to appear in court.
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Hi Thanks for your replies.
I paid the charge simply because I don't really have the time to actively pursue the issue and don't want things to escalate.
I spoke to them on the phone again to say that I hadn't receive the reminder, apparently it doesn't matter although it seems it should.
Also the fact that I paid before the summons was issued doesn't seem to matter either.I asked why the fee was so high, and they just asked me to write a letter or e-mail and wait for an answer.
Pamish, how did you manage to get the charge cancelled?
What's a CCJ and how do I find out if I have one against me?
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I had arrears because they had failed to bill me properly. I paid it off over time with an agreement, as well as the current monthly amount. Every so often I would get a red letter asking for impossible amounts by today or etc etc. I always replied both via their website (keeping a screenshot) and chased by phone, so we had a record. Then I would get a summons and a bill for the alleged fee, and then they would 'refund' it after several more emails and phone calls. I bet they dont actually pay £125 to the court, it's an 'in case' amount. I bet the 'court' is actually a computer that processes hundreds of debts automatically every day.
CCJ = County Court Judement. A record that stays on your name, for ?? years. In all the above shenanigans, this never turned up on any searches on me. You can look up your record, either pay a £2 fee to eg Experian, or there's a new free company whose name escapes me, i will look it up later and add it here.
If people owe me money for my freelance work, I send a very scary letter that threatens all sorts and adds a court fee to the statement. "Notice before action in the Small Claims Court" it's headed. Meaningless, but it works. Including the word Baliff helps.
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The posts by others, above, about being lied to on the phone, backs up my contention earlier. Don't ever trust anything that you are told on the phone. They will always lie, they will always promise to do things and then the exact opposite happens. And, Pamish, re the court, what happens is they go to the local magistrates court with a huge list of arrears claims and try to get liability orders. If you show up to contest it, they try to settle before the court hearing; if not, you can defend yourself. Lots of people don't bother to show up, so then the representative from the Council goes in, reads out a long list, and the magistrates just rubber-stamp it. Most magistrates courts view their function with regard to liability orders for council tax to be exactly that, a rubber stamp. They frequently side with the council, which has more resources, rather than the individual, because it's easier. It's hard to lodge an appeal, too, as to appeal on grounds of having not received a fair hearing, you have to go to the High Court, which is really a bit intimidating. One thing you can always do is lodge a formal complaint with the Chief Executive of the Council, and then, if they don't look into it properly (as they are legally required to), go to the local government ombudsman.
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