Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Chettle Court's Future in Doubt
Chettle Court, 1988, Photo: Tower Block UK
According the Defend Haringey Council Housing organisation, Chettle Court and Stokely Court, a sheltered housing block between Hornsey High Street and Alxandra Park have both been added to a council list as sites for housing development.
The organisation says
In both cases, these are estates with good homes that residents are happy with.Stokley Court is a successful Good Neighbour scheme for vulnerable and older people. Chettle Court is one of the borough’s best designed estates, and it has had thoughtful and effective improvement work as well.
The group make it clear that they fear that demolition is a real prospect as a result of the listing. They say that they are determined that both buildings should be retained and are campaigning to achieve this.
Tags for Forum Posts: chettle court
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hisky0 on
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I don't know who in their right mind would want to retain these structures in all honesty. That's my personal opinion. I think they are butt ugly...
The residents of course would like to remain, and have to be given the option to have new flats, but the whole design of the estate is weird and is completely fenced off. However if the new development takes up any of the ample green space on the plot, I'd agree it should be preserved haha!
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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If the flats provide comfortable homes, you can bet your bottom dollar that anything built today would provide much smaller spaces. It must feel horrible to be put on notice that your home might be taken away at any moment.
The video below suggests that the flats do offer pretty decent accommodation.
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I don't disagree that it would extremely tough - but there's a massive house shortage in the borough and the council needs to choose which sites are redeveloped and which are not. Currently the council is buying up family sized houses and turning them to HMOs, they're also paying the private sector to take tenants - so either they admit that they can't build more housing on existing plots and turn away the waiting list, or they have to make tough decisions.
It's also the case that council Tennants are Tennants just like in the private sector - if a landlord redevelops their property, it's sad, but that's the risk living in both private rented and social rented: take the example of my neighbour who's got 5 kids in a 2 bed flat waiting to be housed - they have to wait for more housing to either be vacated or built; why should some Tennants have a subsidised house for life be protected from redevelopment when there would be ample space to redevelop housing and increase the number of homes available.
Now I'm playing devils avocado, and personally, I'd be happy if both plots sit as they are. But I can see the other side - there's too many people vying for too small a waiting list for property.
The system is sclerotic and hard decisions need to be made sadly!
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Haringey know that they don't necessarily have a brilliant reputation in terms of estate development with the whole HDV debacle, but at the same time, it is a particularly desperate situation where 1 in 29 people in the borough are in statutory homelessness - the 2nd worst district in the country after Newham. So clearly a "do nothing" approach isn't feasible.
To repeat, 1 in 29 Haringey residents are homeless. Just think of that when you see a long, socially distanced queue outside a shop. When it comes to children, the figure is even worse - 1 in 12 are homeless - the worst figure in the country!
Now, that doesn't mean 1 in 29 are rough sleepers - rather, nearly all of those people will be in temporary accommodation. But that will often mean a single parent living in a single room in a hostel or former care home etc. with their children, often with shared facilities.
Therefore councils will invariably look at their own estate to build more housing whenever they are able to get the money to do so. After all, they already own the land.
New build properties (across all tenures) have to meet the space standards in the London Plan, which requires, for example, that a 2 bedroom flat over one storey for 4 persons needs to be 70 square metres. Even a studio flat would need to be 37 square metres, which is about 2.5 times the size of my own flat. If you want to see actual examples of rabbit hutch development, look at office to residential conversions done through prior approval (which the government exempted from those standards, and pretty much any other kind of standard).
In terms of options for individual sites, there will be a spectrum of options from infill on drying courts, garage sites etc, through to vertical or horizontal extensions, through to partial or complete demolition and redevelopment. In some cases the latter might not be worthwhile, especially if only a small increase in the overall number of homes is possible. The options that do not involve demolition tend to be faster to implement which can be important for external funding deadlines.
The options involving demolition do however, require a ballot of residents if the council or housing association want GLA funding; although smaller projects which are below the threshold for Mayoral planning "call-in" powers might still go ahead without a ballot, as well as those which do not require additional funding.
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Thanks Chris for a very informative post. That GLA funding is conditional on residents' ballots is very important! Also that document, if I interpret it correctly, means that residents have to be offered the right to remain or return to their estate at social rents (not 'affordable rent', which is so much higher) . But could it be a much higher 'social rent' for the same size of home?
Concerning rabbit hutch developments, also a very important issue. Local people's lobbying saw off such a development in Wood Green only a few months ago. And yes, that one was 'office to residential' and I guess the government relaxed space standards for those as a form of corporate welfare for hard-trodden commercial landlords, even including public sector ones. But it's not intrinsic to the architecture. A lot of the businesses that sadly won't revive after COVID may well be occupying the hundreds of offices, shops and factory units that the council owns. Not only a number of ground floor places suitable for wheelchair uses - particularly for the single homeless, factory/warehouse premises should provide quite a few opportunities. Already some commercial landlords have offered empty units to 'warehouse communities' and particularly if done better, that type of conversion has much potential.
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on
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May I ask where you found the information that "Currently the council is buying up family sized houses and turning them to HMOs"?
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Hiya, to add a personal firsthand perspective… We lived very happily in Chettle Court for 4 years - as your video shows very well , Hugh, the space is so much more generous than recent new builds today and the sound proofing is excellent. Wile we were living there 6 years ago there’d already been discussions about building on the basketball court area - it does slope so would need expensive and robust foundations according to builder contacts . personally I doubt it’ll happen but many residents, while not thrilled about using the grassy area and well used amenity understand how pressed the council is for affordable homes. But yes, a cracking place to live and some very stylish 70s design touches, friendly neighbours and a great communal garden. The only reason we moved was to get access to a private garden for our very energetic whippet/ lurcher inger
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A friend who has lived at Chettle Court for years would live nowhere else and enjoys longstanding friendships with so many neighbours. The flats are lovely inside and have fantastic views.
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Also, is there anywhere you can see which sites Haringey is thinking of developing.
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The key housing document they publish is the Site Allocations Plan. Haringey describe this as follows
The Site Allocations Development Plan Document sets out sites where the council expects significant developments to happen from now until 2026, along with a broad idea of what kind of buildings could be built there.
From what DHCH wrote, it seems like the list, if not the document, is updated through the year.
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Forgive me, but I can't see it on the list - is that because it's not been updated yet?
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You'd need to ask someone who knows more than me. I said in the original post where my info came from and gave a link. In my last reply, I wrote From what DHCH wrote, it seems like the list, if not the document, is updated through the year.
Come back and tell us what you find out.
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