Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
CCTV in the passage
Tags for Forum Posts: cctv
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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Oh yes...one last thing... a new EU Data Protection Regulation was passed in January which, assuming we opt to stay in the EU, will impose even stricter regulation of CCTV.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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/* I'm replying to your post below as I can't figure out how to reply to deeply-nested comments - there's no 'reply' button. */
I've read research by Criminologists showing CCTV doesn't work and I thought it made sense - it just moves crime along and increases the hooded population. I want to see less CCTV misused for policing rather than more. It's clearly deeply wrong that GCHQ has been doing mass surveillance of us for no good reason sinc.... When on demos I can feel the government's stealth. Abuse of power is currently getting worse.
What we maybe should do in public places ideally is be on hand - harder to do bad stuff whilst in full view of locals.
There is not enough crime in the passage to attract the budget of the authorities - it'll be left to local people, most of whom actively don't want to do anything themselves, so nothing happens.
I thought that, if we made public places into a sort of 'reality TV show', that'd be an improved use of CCTV rather than the clandestine one we have now. You could tune into 'Passage TV', a 24 hour station that showed the hidden bits of the passage for all to see. There are masses of public cameras around, not just traffic cams, shop cams, hairdressers cams, restaurant cams etc etc. Here's one from one of the many sites that aggregate CCTV feeds for all to see.
I don't live near the passage and my interest is 'if I am able to help, then I will'. I think it's a shame that we've put these powerful, practically free devices with cameras in everyone's hands but can find no acceptable community use for them.
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Bottom line is that the ability to use the footage for enforcement is fundamental. What is the point of knowing who's dog pooed in the Passage if you can't do anything about it.
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If you were being Machiavellian you could argue the inability to solve an assault / break in / drug deal on what would be seen by the public as a technicality would force the police to install a proper system
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For me this boils down to being a cost vs benefit analysis. The geography of the Passage would make it extremely difficult to monitor. You would need a camera for practically every block. Green Lanes, as a point of comparison, is a long straight road. One camera can conceivably cover half a mile in distance. That makes it affordable in terms of the cost vs benefit. The Police, whether you agree or not, are not that interested in dealing with anti-social behaviour and low-level crime. I think the case mentioned on here recently about the chap who stopped a bike thief sums it up. They couldn't be bothered to chase after him, because in the grand scheme of things, he's small potatoes......
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All the PCSOs, the police themselves, council officers etc I talk to all stress the need for people to report incidents to them - how else, they say, can they efficiently allocate the few resources they have?
So we can't stop dogs but if we report enough of them, the authorities can do something about it - I guess nobody wants anything else - why keep a dog and bark yourself?
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I personally would hate to see more money being spent on cameras, even if it is private money. The infrastructure required to cover the whole passage would be huge, and who is going to pay for the monitoring and storage? Regardless, increasing security is the wrong way to go. Instead if people stopped trying to turn their garden walls into a fortress, took down the high fences and barbed wire, then the passage would feel nicer, have more passive surveillance and be less like the sort of place people would feel comfortable dumping rubbish etc. If we are going to crowd fund anything how about some money to tidy up and add more planters, that give the place a cared for feel. Like those daffodil pots that someone put out this spring. Nice one by the way whoever that was.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I agree. CCTV is a passive way to deal with crime. They record crimes that have happened but I'm not convinced that they are the best way to prevent crime in the first place. Places that feel unloved and uncared for also feel like places where no one cares about behaviour. As an example I was walking past the alley way that runs between Alexandra Road and Park Ridings (behind Wood Green Boots) at about 9am one day last week and a bloke was having a a crap in there (the alley way, not Boots). I mentioned it to the security guard in the Shopping City and he said it was a regular occurrence. The alley way is bounded by high walls, not overlooked by windows and is a place you would either hurry through or avoid all together.
I think the approach taken by the Friends of Harringay Passage (to improve it) is a better way make it more attractive and well used.
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They also say that a pair of eyes painted on the wall has as effective a deterrent effect as CCTV.... I can remember how depressing I found it when someone put huge loops of razor wire at the top of their wall. It felt like living in a war zone. Thank God somebody (I assume the Council) made them replace it with something more appropriate
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Would it be just as effective as a deterrent to have signs made up saying " CCTV in Operation " without bothering with the actual cameras ?
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Well that's an interesting question because criminals know the difference between real signage and dummy signage. But then most of the problems in the Passage amounts to anti-social behaviour than out and out criminality so it might well make a difference. I can also relate an interesting tale of a Council building fitted with dummy cameras that then received an FOI request relating to the number and location of cameras and for access to footage which they obviously were unable to provide... once everyone knows they aren't real, is there any deterrent effect? Maybe, maybe not. Personally I find the amount of signage everywhere makes you "sign blind".
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