Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Cars jumping the lights - Time to demand action!
Recently the police spent 30 mins from 5-5.30pm at the lights on the junction of Warham Road and Green Lanes and recorded 17 bikes / 2 buses / 7 cars ran the red lights.
The police are looking to conduct a formal operation but this takes lots of time and resources. A number of groups (including the police) have pushed for a camera on these lights to catch the offenders but have been met with a lot of passing the buck.
It would be great to make a push on this - we need safe streets. Great to get support to demand action!
Note - Cameras won't catch the bikes but can make an impact on the other offenders. Something is better than nothing...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T
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There's a jamcam north of those lights, main purpose to penalise misuse of the bus lane, which also detects illegal right turns into Warham Road (as reported by a forum member: "But at least the picture showed I indicated right!"). Doesn't cover the Salisbury Rd set though, and it won't be connected to the set of traffic lights unlike the yellow cameras are.
And some years ago there was a concerted few days of action at the Manor House junction.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson
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I’m surprised it’s so few Alice. The interpretation of amber at the junction seems to be ‘put your foot down’ for some drivers. I got mouthful crossing when the sign was green for pedestrians before Christmas, I was half way across and apparently had selfishly put my body and walking stick in front of a moving vehicle. It seems it because I was the unintelligent offspring of unmarried parents.
The phasing often goes rather odd and is red on Green Lanes but allows vehicles to exit Salisbury Road without there being a pedestrian green phase. A lot of people, me included, have been caught out by it and you end up doing a bit of a hop, skip and jump to get to the Iceland side in one piece.
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Permalink Reply by Ruben
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I read that and laughed hard. 2 buses in 30 minutes. Bearing in mind the rough frequency of buses (3 lines), that's 12 buses in 30 minutes.
mind you cars, 1 in 6 buses jumps the lighs
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So, going for the easy option, again.
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Not sure what was meant, but I presume the easy option is to fine anyone with a number plate that can be recorded via video camera. Don't even need to lift a finger, the fines mail themselves.
The difficult question would be: if you capture 26 offences in 30 minutes, something must be seriously wrong. Is the phase too short? is the traffic light not visible? Are buses obstructing the traffic lights? and so on.
then put some measures that address the issue.
In my mind, this is not too different from a "desire path". It's the same as when people cross the street in a place without a proper crossing. It typically indicates that the crossing is in the wrong place. People cross for a reason (bus stop, school, medical centre, it's the shortest path...). What people are doing, unconsciously, is giving you feedback. You can choose to listen or not.
Almost 1 vehicle jumping a red light every minute (technically it's only red half the time, so you are talking 2 per minute) is a clear indication of something being very wrong.
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Why not go for the highest number of offenders by group and catch the cyclists. Time to show that being uninsured and unaccountable is no free pass when breaking the law. Having police officers stopping and fining cyclists would send a clear message to all road users and no doubt bring the offence count down for all groups. This would of course would require no additional equipment or permissions and demonstrate that the current law is enforceable at no extra cost. The best part would be that it wouldn’t appear that the motorists are being singled out as they usually are whilst indirectly turning a blind eye to non motor road users who break exactly the same rules and as most would expect should face exactly the same consequences.
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because you should go for the vehicles that are causing most danger to pedestrians not those that need to stay safe from light jumping buses and cars.
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I don't agree with selective policing. We are all equal in the eyes of the law, I'm sure you wouldn't want to be accused of targeting motor vehicles. The law is applied equally to all road users regardless of the potential danger caused by infringement. I'm sure you would join me calling for ALL lawbreakers to be prosecuted for breaking the law and absolve yourself of being accused of targeting one specific group of road users. If there is a problem with road users not adhering to the red traffic light signal then the onus is on policing to address the situation and prosecute ALL users who break these laws and not just one specific group. Just my opinion.
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Absolutely - everyone should be prosecuted if they are caught breaking the law. But what are the practicalities of it 24/7?
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You really dont think the police have priorities and limited resources and therefore have to make choices? And cyclists going through red lights are less of a priority than trucks or cars.
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So essentially you want a camera present to enforce the traffic lights controls. But that we both agree doesn't address the fact that an enforcement camera does absolutely nothing to stop non motor vehicles from breaking the law. So if a child, or say an elderly individual is hurt by a cyclist, or a cyclist themselves gets involved in a collision after crossing a red light signal that's ok because we managed to reduce the number of motor vehicles breaking the law. Sounds odd to me when 17 bikes broke the law and 7 cars broke the law. Call me a cynic but it feels more like a let's not address the actual problem and more like let's punish only a certain group who commit road traffic offences. The others can go Scott free. My view is against this. Anyone who passes through a red light should be prosecuted and there is no room for semantic or selective enforcement.
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