Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Can Anyone Explain this Council Logic?
In a round-robin about new parking charges that hit my inbox today, Haringey Council wrote the following:
Visitors parking permits will be simplified and no longer be subject to a limited allocation
This is to ensure we are taking a fair approach when it comes to everyone who wants to park in our borough and to encourage people to use other forms of transport if possible.
As I read it they're saying that they're going to make visitor parking permits easier to get "to encourage people to use other forms of transport". So, making it easier to use a car will encourage people not to use a car.
Is there some good logic there that is eluding me or is it the nonsense I think it is?
ADDENDUM:
The discussion that follows from this post has revealed that visitor parking charges will more than double and residents will no longer be able to exchange unused permits.
Read about the proposals on Haringey's website here.
You can make an objection by email to traffic.orders@haringey.gov.uk
You can see a Freedom of Information request submitted on this issue here
Tags for Forum Posts: parking, parking permits, visitor parking permits
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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I think your grasp of logic is pretty good Hugh!
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay ward
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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That seems like a pretty generous interpretation on the one hand. On the other hand if I thought the Council were encouraging use of Haringey as one big ride and park car park, I wouldn’t be at all happy.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Give? No, sell.... that parking website gives per hour quotes. Just put an offer there
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Permalink Reply by Olly on
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Putting the barmy logic to one side for a moment, the real killer here is the fact the new permits will expire after 12 months. This is a clear attempt to raise revenue knowing full well that there will be huge numbers unused vouchers that will have to be re-purchased each year.
Like others I generally don't know when I need them so always have some on hand. Some years I'll use a lot, some none. Due to the often 2 week turn around, it's not practical to order them as needed.
They could of course get around this by making the purchase of visitors permits (and the resident parking scheme itself for that matter) a purely electronic process and do away with us having to display permits of any kind. I believe Islington have already gone down this route for resident permits.
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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When is this happening Hugh? And will they use the 'simplification' to increase prices?...Might be time to stock up.
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You can read all about on Haringey's website it here.
But go easy on the stocking up. As my episode last year showed, Haringey are already unique amongst London Councils in making it very difficult to get a refund for expired parking permits and they refuse absolutely to exchange them for current permits.
This new scheme includes the following wording:
"It is anticipated that those [one-hour] permits would be used within the year purchased and not stock piled for future years. Unused permits would therefore not be exchanged or refunded."
(So, developing the Council's logic stream - unlimited visitors permits is good because it encourages use of other forms of transport, but not so good that we'll sell non-expiring permits - yes, I think we get the message!)
As I've previously written elsewhere, now that Haringey are removing physical parking payment paraphenalia for on-street parking, I can't quite see why the new paperless technology can't also be used for visitor parking. Wandsworth have such a system. One has to wonder why Haringey remain attached to a paper-based system. Is it, as KTwok and OllyR suggest, all about revenue management?
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Permalink Reply by KTwok on
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Looks like 2 hours (previously 70p) will be discontinued and replaced by 1 hour for 80p. So that's a pretty clear increase. I liked the 2 hour permits for friends arriving at the end of a day or for visiting repair folk etc.
It appears to all be proposals so far, with no date set. Stocking up on existing ones should be ok, surely?
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You'd have to check what the latest conditions of sale are. It took me some time to uncover the fact that, contrary to what the Council were telling residents, current traffic management orders require them to refund (but not exchange) permits. My assumption is that these orders have not yet changed - but you'd need to check.
It would also be worth checking whether the new TMOs would apply retrospectively, thereby removing any historic obligation on the Council to refund.
The Council have proved as slippery as a slightly dishonest private enterprise on this one, so don't assume goodwill or fairness.
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I'm not sure if the current supplier for the electronic pay and display scheme (PayByPhone) does anything more than pay and display services. Their website doesn't say either way.
A quick search on Google did throw up another provider (www.mipermit.com) that appears to offer electronic management of the whole parking process for local authorities; resident, visitor and pay and display. It would be interesting to now what steps have been taken to investigate the feasibility of adopting such a system in Harringay.
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I've submitted a Freedom of Info request via What Do They Know. I'll update this thread once I get a reply.
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