Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Campaign against Wightman Road closure
Spotted in a local shop window..
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by EyeSpy on
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Big agreement from me.
Living in the largest city in Western Europe that largely is the same as it was in the 1800's will have it's downsides. If it was flattened during WW2 and rebuilt to suit modern life then it would be vastly different.
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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Increased journey times during the bridge works were due to greater congestion in Green Lanes, between the Salisbury and Manor House. At times the road was more like a car park. The increased congestion is a health hazard for people living on that section of Green Lanes and vastly decreases quality of life as an already busy road becomes even busier. This debate has been going on ad nauseum but the main gist is that supporters of the Wightman Road closure are happy to have reduced traffic in their area at the detriment of their neighbours rather than share the burden.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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A share of the burden is what this is all about Pat. In the first week of January last year Stanhope Road (on the other side of Green Lanes from where I live) had 6,576 vehicle movements recorded. It's about the same length and with the same number of houses as my road, Warham. In the same week we had 17,963 vehicle movements. Wightman had around 115,000. Is that a fair share of the burden?
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But is it a fair share to reduce Wightman it zero? Without reducing blackboy to the same or StAnnes, or endimion, or Salisbury , or woodlands. Or westgreen, or Belmont .
Every road should take its fair share including the gardens and hermitage.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Please check the figures Andy - Wightman didn't reduce to zero, it was filtered rather than closed, so residents and visitors used it to access their home, and residents of the relevant rungs would use a portion of it to get back to Green Lanes. The traffic flow on Wightman was higher than most Gardens roads.
Figures are here: https://batchgeo.com/map/dffd78475ca0d105236f9860a0555b49
"Every road should take its fair share" - yes but according to its capacity - carriageway width, residents parking requirements, pavement width, house frontage. As I've said before I'd be very happy to see other roads filtered or protected. But Wightman is by far the worst affected on all these criteria.
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Firstly, by my definitions. That's not filtering that's an ox bow lake. A road to nowhere......
The gardens should be opened in some way, so stop clutching at that life belt. And traffic flow on Wightman was more than the garden roads? Come on . Wightmans a mile long, of course it had more traffic flow. Thats your ladder neighbours going to work/shopping in a car!!!!
Go for it,... keep your road to yourself.
But I'll keep advocating to keep my road open so you get your Ocado/Amazon/ sainsbury/ bin lorries and also provide a route for others to "Filter" though from other areas, north to south, so my neighbours can get to where they need to go.
Seriously, if that's Living Wightmans definition of "filtering" I'm not sure I'd enjoy the coffee. I Might need a spoonfull of "mitigating measures" to sweeten it.
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Andy "Wightmans a mile long, of course it had more traffic flow" It was a mile long for cyclists but closed to motorised through-traffic so it can't have been ladder neighbours going shopping. Here's the data for one weekday when Wightman was filtered (click image to enlarge):
There were concrete blocks on Wightman just north of Effingham and just south of Beresford, preventing motorised through-traffic but permeable to cyclists (probably some pizza delivery mopeds in there too). Hence the class 2 vehicle count for Wightman at this point is the same as for Effingham and Beresford - ratrunning has been eliminated and the streets are just used for access to residents homes (and no doubt a bit of parking for the shops and restaurants on GL at this point).
For comparison, here is Chesterfield Gardens on the same day - not surprisingly very similar figures for a road which is similarly protected from through traffic:
An oxbow lake by the way is completely cut off from the original river - Wightman and the rung roads will form loops but still connected to GL to allow residents' access.
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Only in its final form. When the original route silts up.
A question I've wanted to ask for ages
Where does your definition of Filtering come from
I cant find one that matches your definition. Could you let me have the reference please
Thanks
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Try this Andy.
(And, oxbow lakes are formed when the river breaks through the isthmus rather than the meander silting up. I can't see the analogy being apt in either case, although "meandering the Ladder" has a certain appeal).
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like the gardens,, deserted, scary for young women to walk down at night (no people around) and a general air of unfriendliness.
Thanks for the link tho. interesting. -
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"general air of unfriendliness"
Actually there was a noticeable increase in people using the space at the front of their houses, conversing with neighbours. Traffic severs communities, eliminating through traffic enhances it.
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Pat - the congestion between the Salisbury and Manor House caused increased journey times of a couple of minutes:
Weekdays from Wood Green to Manor House was similar as I've already posted here.
I think those few minutes would be significantly mitigated by some of the measures already proposed in the plans - improving junctions, relocating bustops etc. Reviewing parking and loading (or even properly enforcing the current restrictions) would also help.
It's also interesting to look at east-west journeys - buses towards Muswell Hill were again a few minutes slower, but coming back actually a few minutes faster:
The most affected journey seems to be Crouch End to Turnpike Lane - but in the opposite direction not much difference:
As I've said in other posts, that eastbound traffic from Crouch End was badly affected by the lack of adjustments to traffic light phases at the Turnpike Lane junctions with Green Lanes, Wightman Road and Church Lane - fixing those traffic light transitions would be the main mitigation, but again reviewing parking and loading and if possible the busstop location on Turnpike Lane would also help significantly.
The other thing that would help significantly is if opponents of Wightman filtering would stop trotting out the same canards (or hyperbole as you said on another post) about "chaos", "traffic hell", "like a car park" etc. Yes there was significant disruption for the first few weeks of the bridgeworks and continued inconvenience and unreliable journey times but they improved over the months and there is certainly plenty of scope for further mitigation. Filtering Wightman Road plus mitigations would not only rectify a significant injustice against Wightman Road residents but actually benefit the whole local community on both sides of Green Lanes and much further afield.
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