Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Aussie Corporation Lendlease set to take over Haringey's public land in 20 year deal
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I find it a bit strange that nobody cares about this. Missed the tweet perhaps?
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Perhaps you should change the title.. ;-) ?
Make it more, well, s e x y..
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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Austerity fatigue, like compassion fatigue? It's related to this sort-of consultation, surely (also presented in a different format as a 4-page section of Oct-Nov Haringey People which isn't yet online):
'Our budget up to 2018'
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/local-democracy/policies-and-strategies/...
So, have your say.....
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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More interested in how such a 50/50 partnership will work tbh. What will the company's role be? What happens after 20 years? Etc.
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It won't last 20 years. It will be in court and at great cost to council tax payers, within five.
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Large and experienced foreign corporation versus The London Borough of Haringey. The question is more why are the council doing this?
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Oh it turns out that Kristian Klapp at Terrapin and Alan Strickland are old mates. Now I know why Haringey are doing it. Nice!
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No, I've really no idea other than I think this is a foreign corporation rubbing it's hands with glee as it gets them on the council's housing estates for 20 years. At a guess I'd say that the council are hoping to replicate Woodberry Down all over the borough.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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I'm very interested! It's such a shame no detailed explanation is given.
How do LBH derive their reasoning? In small groups behind closed doors among people with no mandate (most Cllrs here get elected on sub 20% turnouts)? I imagine they think that the chorus from people with views would be so loud that it would interfere, so they cut us out of the deal. Once sorted, then they 'consult' without sharing enough information for us to take a balanced view, so theirs always triumphs.
I ask, what would I do faced with the mess we're in? As Council Leader, I'd not be able to address the wider socio-political issues, I'd concentrate on my own back yard, where there has been a big rise in property value. I think our Leader Claire Kober has sent her member for regen (Alan Strickland) out into a world full of huge property corporates at the Property Shows to leverage high prices and one or two of them have pounced.
However talented Alan is, I doubt very much that he can better the huge developers (otherwise he'd be a multi-millionaire too). Alan is doubtless supported by Civil Servants Lyn Garner (Head of Regen) and Jon McGrath (Assistant Director, Capital Projects) both of whom are among the highest paid (£100k+) so arguably more susceptible to the seductions large property corporates use to tempt their marks.
I could be wrong - who knows? Does the effective 18% devaluation of our money mean deals are doomed?
------------- an example I fail to understand, with a big bonus available -----------------------
Our local MP Catherine West used to be, like Claire, a Council Leader (Islington). Catherine helped get 1,000 Council homes built over our border and says the average cost to build a dwelling is £100k.
LBH is disposing of the right to develop the Hornsey Town Hall (HTH) car park (119 dwellings) to a $2bn corporate (and I'm not making this up) Far East International Consortium Ltd.
Construction cost: £12m (119 flats @ £100k each=£1.19m - not all new build so actually cheaper).
Two bedroom flats near HTH are heading for the £1m mark. I make that £119m in sales in maybe 2018.
Profit: £119m-£12m = £100m+
So the winning bidder (a $2bn corporate) stands to make more than £100m profit from an asset 100% owned by the public (we paid for the land and construction in the 1930's) that we'll never get back (125 year lease - under the law, long leasheolders of flats have the right to buy the freehold).
If a non-profit Housing Association did the deal, it could return a vast chunk of that profit back to us. Here's a deal and a half where a Council get rental income from Council homes in perpetuity with no money down.
Can it be true that LBH are giving a massive corporate £100m when, if Alan was a better dealmaker, they could keep, say, £50m?
If in fact LBH are being done over by asset strippers how can we help save the day?
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Absolutely no intention of smearing any public servant. I've met both the people I mentioned and they'll tell you I don't think they're crooks, far from it. My point is that it seems that the more money you earn, the more often you win at negotiations and that those on high salaries are more easily out-negotiated by those on even-higher salaries.
I'ts not bribery or corruption if one of these high earners subsequently goes on to work for a developer. The Property industry is a revolving door. Like the Accountancy profession who advise government on Tax law then go and work for tax avoiders. Our public servants are worth more than they're getting paid so it's quite natural that they'll sometimes go and work in other parts of the property service, e,g the big banks who have huge property portfolios.
My 'child-like' maths is why I asked the question. If you can see it's child-like, why can't you comment further with a more sophisiticated analysis?
>>how on earth would Haringey scale up and deliver a £2B regeneration project?
That's why I quoted the footballers deal - the Council has it all done for them, no money upfront but with a much more generous return, in perpetuity. As you point out, it seems that Councils can get screwed by the market - that's the main issue for me. Tories push this propaganda all the time - they want small government but that means big business and how has that turned out? Look what happened when we let the market buy council houses - more than half are now being rented back to the council by private landlords.
Even the footballers deal I think is not as good as what can be done. I know that the current LBH CEO made his rep outsourcing everything in Barnet, but that's not a model I think is tenable any longer. We have had a fashion for outsourcing but 'market forces' drove up costs hugely and made vast profit - they rip us off.
Some Councils are returning to insourcing and I think that's way better if it can be done.
There's a whole debate to be had as to whether building new homes on such a vast scale will actually help - so few are affordable that all it does is socially cleanse. Affordable, as you know, just means 80%. That's why the Mayor of London is looking at a 'living rent'.
I posted this because I want to know - if you have any answers, please give them.
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