Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Ally Pally's Victorian Theatre Reborn: See the Future
CGI image of Ally Pally's Victorian theatre after regeneration (Image by Farrells, used with the kind permission of Alexandra Palace)
Last week we heard the good news that the Alexandra Park Trust has been awarded nearly £900,000 from the Heritage Lottery Fund to begin revitalising the east wing of Alexandra Palace, including the TV studios, the Victorian Theatre and the eastern entrance.
Today, I 'm delighted to be abel to share this wonderful CGI image of what the theatre regenerated will look like. It will be wonderful when this work is complete to have a third theatre on our doorstep (The others are Park Theatre in Finsbury Park and the planned conversion of the Crouch End Music Palace).
I'm sure Clive Carter will share with us how far the present funding will take the work.
Congratulations to all involved in securing this funding.
Tags for Forum Posts: alexandra palace, ally pally, theatre
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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What you spend on x you can't also spend on y.
True; however Alan, you do not recognise this logic when it comes to things like the new £90k p.a. council PR job.
In respect of AP, the bulk of the monies to help fix up our charity's asset would come from the Heritage Lottery Fund: a pretty good deal, but I'm not sure you'd agree.
Sadly, the "oodles of imagination" were no more than a 15-year policy to flog the building to a property developer, at great historical cost – and the cash sale receipt (never received) was far more than wiped out by unbridled sale costs plus huge subsidy of (Cllr Adje's) Licence to Firoka, that you know of.
The dream in a marble hall led to a "robust" selection process, after which the council managed to select a former slum land-lord. The long-held sale policy was not only misguided, but also debilitating to the goal of trading its way out of loss. The Trust Board (all local councilors) tolerated poor legal advice and mismanagement year after year.
Sadly, it took High Court action to halt the sale before the council thought more deeply and set upon broadly the right course that will see public retention of the parts of AP of historical importance, including the internationally significant SE wing.
I could go on, but most people know of the terrible reputation in the past. All bad things come to an end. If the good times are not just about to happen, then at least their outline is taking shape! AP has turned a big corner and I believe that real progress can now be made.
I hope Alan that you might yet take a fresh look at the plans and become a Tigger!
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IT was a good meeting last night, with hearty congratulations all around!
Jacob (O'Callaghan) – one of the leading lights in the successful Save Ally Pally public campaign – congratulated the council's selection panel for their inspired choice of Duncan Wilson to be our Trust's first Chief Executive.
The London Evening Standard captured the positive mood last week in this article:
‘Cursed’ Alexandra Palace changes its luck with £24m revamp
And for Alan, I would draw his attention to the positive remarks of the Chairman of the Trust Board (Matt Cooke) at the end of the Standard's account.
Especially in these difficult times, this is a wonderful excellent achievement, a unanimous decision by the Heritage Lottery Fund, against good and strong competition, the best news for Ally Pally in three decades; the best possible outcome.
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Permalink Reply by Lynne on
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Alan, along with Soo (Sid James) and Therese, I m happy, neigh delitghted, for my Council Tax to go towards restoring Ally Pally. Frankly we (the poor souls/soles) who have been to those dreadful desperate downtrodden blood pressure busting Ally Pally meetings for too long, are all gob smacked that the Council, not previously known for any imagination, and vision being a much maligned word, have actually got it right.
What will we get? Potholes versus heritage, compare to shoe leather repair versus the crown jewels, a valuable community asset of world wide significance. It's a no brainer, the HLF unanimously awarded the historically important parts of AP, to the detriment of the Southbank Centre whose bid I understand was turned down. A useful spend indeed.
Lynne
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Lynne, I'm a fan of Heather Brooke. And not least when I read in The Silent State that: "Other people's money is remarkably easy to spend."
I'm not criticising the Heritage Lottery Fund. Although not because I think the Ally Pally is of "world wide significance". I'm simply asking whether the choices implied by the annual revenue subsidy and the capital funding would be endorsed by a significant number of Haringey residents if the consequences were spelled out for them.
Everyone involved in the plan seems to be terribly cheerful and sunny and full of optimism that this new plan really is the way forward. Maybe they are right. Maybe it will at long last mean that the Ally Pally ceases to be an annual drain on the Council's budget. (I assume few people believe it will generate a profit and return money to the residents.)
Though I expect some Ally Pally fans simply believe that the Council should continue spending around £2 million of Haringey residents' limited - and rapidly shrinking - revenue funds to meet the Palace's annual loss. And now another £6 million capital on matching the Lottery money.
But I prefer not to start with back-slapping and congratulating one another for finally tracking the rainbow to the leprechaun's gold.
People may entirely agree with you, Soo and Clive and many many others and be happy to see a slice of their Council Tax and revenue funds go on subsiding the Ally Pally rather than - perhaps - a school roof, or new homes; or advice services or whatever. But across the whole borough nobody's asking them.
I've yet to see any clear, hard-headed detailed information given to Haringey residents about the choices likely to face the Council in the coming two years and how Ally Pally fits in with this. The coming seven years if there is no change of Government. (And maybe even if there is.)
If participatory budgeting is okay for Porto Alegre and hundreds of other towns and cities, then why not here as well?
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Alan thanks for deleting your two pieces of distraction-nonsense without prompting (it's helpful, but it does have the effect of making it look as though I replied to myself!)
The Council happily took on responsibility for our Charity in 1980 and has been sole Trustee since then. Post the 2007 Save Ally Pally High Court win, you were on the Trust Board. Can you recall if you were mainly:
- continuing to press for sale to the former slum landlord?
- or outright sale to another property developer?
- pressing to get rid of poor quality legal advice?
- pressing to get rid of poor management?
- advocating governance reform?
- advocating a bid to the HLF?
- offering vision?
- nodding through "officer" advice?
- just going with the flow?
- or perhaps some other contribution?
I hope this aide memoire might help. I'm sure that as a Trust Board Member (and also privy to the Council Exempt sessions), you were not just a passenger, so your views could be interesting. If you'd prefer not to be drawn, you could always restore your diversionary posts!
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It is interesting that you should switch to an attack on me in my one year as a member of the Alexandra Palace Board. And ignore the fundamental issue which is that:
Due to the absurd legal position, the very significant losses of a charity have had to be paid for out of the pockets of the Council Tax payers of Haringey.
I am no longer a member of the Alexandra Palace Board. When I am on the Board of any charitable trust or of a company I act in the interest of that body.
There's a book called Exit, Voice and Loyalty which I found helpful. You've told me you never read the books and articles I suggest. But the title may give you an idea. That people often face a choice of walking away from a problem; speaking up and trying to help solve it; or saying nothing, and perhaps keeping their heads down and letting things continue.
I'm now a councillor until next May. As a councillor and a Haringey resident I prefer Voice. Raising questions and speaking out. I realise this isn't to everyone's liking. And that often there are groups of people with particular views, enthusiasms, and interests who don't agree with me. Quite often they appear to be in echo chambers of the like-minded; amplifying and reinforcing one another's strongly held views.
About my postings from the annals of the Haringey Pimple, my apologies, Clive, for forgetting that you have no sense of humour. I find that with some people humour is a way of making serious points in a gentle, sideways way.
My serious point here is to suggest that there has been a regular cycle of ambitious and mostly well-intentioned schemes to sort out the financial problems of the Ally Pally - always by spending yet larger sums of someone else's money.
Obviously you won't want to consider any views which differ from your own. So enjoy your echo chamber!
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I'm sorry you interpret my points as an "attack on me" rather than as legitimate questions that could equally be directed to any member of our Charity's Trust Board at the time (or to the Board as a whole). Not all Trustees are as willing to discuss openly such matters of public interest as you normally are.
You believe that the fundamental problem is the "absurd legal position". As a former Trustee, can you help fellow Beneficiaries by explaining how this position came about?
And hopefully, without reference to yet more reading lists ;-)
I hope you won't see it as rude if I ask you how you saw your role as Trustee of our Charity? (this is technical language, but not jargon).
My comments weren't intended as a personal attack, but taking faux-offence allows you to avoid responding to any of the key governance points. Do you believe that Charity Trustees should be accountable?Most people (even me) have a sense of humour, but I find that different people find different things funny. Did you recommend Exit Voice and Loyalty to your fellow Trustees? Did they find it as helpful as you did?
Is it fair to say that (since you left) the big positive changes have been of policy and personnel? For all we know, you may even have had a hand in these positive moves.
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Clive I told you how I try to discharge my duties when I've served as a Trustee.
Here is my understanding of the legal position. (Unless the law has been changed since I last looked it up) In general trustees of a charity are not allowed to benefit from the charity. Conversely, provided trustees act reasonably and honestly - and seek and follow professional advice, they are not liable for the debts of a charity.
Normally charities are not allowed to run at a deficit without reserves to cover a deficit year after year. (The Ally Pally has been able to do this because its deficits have been met by Haringey Council.)
Normally a local council which finds itself with charge of charitable funds, cannot and must not dip into those funds itself. But nor is it responsible for bailing out the charity if the charity goes bust. In other words the council taxpayers do not have to pay up.
The original legal advice received by Haringey Council confirmed that the same position applied to Haringey and the Alexandra Palace Trust. Subsequent legal advice said the opposite. The reason given was the Act of Parliament which set up the Trust.
One person who knows a huge amount about this is your LibDem colleague Cllr Juliet Solomon. Juliet told me she very much enjoyed the Haringey Pimple - especially the piece Tobeo & Juliet which she included in her evidence to the District Auditor one year - as I recall - challenging the Council's accounts.
Clive, we will need to agree to differ. I very much hope you, Lynne, Soo and others are right about the current plans for the Palace. But experience tells me that the odds are very long.
As my scepticism is unwelcome in this echo chamber, I've nothing more to add.
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Alan,
You have a point - other people s money is easy to spend especially behind closed doors. One could then go down the route of how much is it costing us to pay for temporary accomodation in hotels and hostels, loads of money is wasted in the civil service and the Council. May I draw your attention to the use of agencies by Councils to offer high level long term temps . Why is our money being spent in this willful way ? Void residential and commercial properties, do we know where they are in Haringey? Contractors that do shoddy work for top dollar that Councils allow towards leaseholders and the contractors come to expect. Gold plated 1000 channel TV aerial schemes that contractors love across Haringey. The old satellite dishes are still there on Council properties that the Council so reviled and leaseholders paid for. Repairs where there is no evidence of the repair being done because the Council supports no photographic evidence nor a works clerk to sign off the repair. High bills for no or bad repairs. Do you think that Council housing or property services affords good value?
I could go on and on and would be happy to discuss with you privately. Lots of avoidable squidillion wastage and misery to others that we nor they involved see any value for.
Ally Pally s been no different, one manager s expwrience lay in charge of cemeteries previously, one was a previous engineer, the one at the time of Firoka deal I d rather not go into on this site, in whose interest was he consulting on? Jobs for the boys and a massive expense account, Ally Pally seen as another Council property, rather than a Charitable Trust (educational and recreational) that it is. The people's palace it was intended for and the ordinary man, us.
That requires large scale vision, by dealing with the components, working to a budget and a mix of the commercial to fund the charitable and those skills and experience I believe the current chief executive has. That s what's changed.
Ally Pally has been, when run properly, and will be a fabulous community, historic resource and of world wide importance,
Lynne
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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And speaking of echo chambers: "I wonder if a single thought that has helped forward the human spirit has ever been conceived or written down in an enormous room." Kenneth Clark, Civilisation, in the Vatican's ginormous Map Room.
Can't think why London Concrete didn't make a reasonable offer for AP, rather than disturbing the good people of N8.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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An echo chamber is used ( mainly in broadcasting ) to add artificial echo to sound. But I think Alan is saying that this discussion is like an echo chamber where the same points are being made over and over again.
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Thérèse, where Alan says "Echo chamber" it's rhetoric not to be taken seriously (in practice it means "apparently several people don't agree with me!")
Quite often they [those who don't agree with me] appear to be in echo chambers of the like-minded; amplifying and reinforcing one another's strongly held views.
my scepticism is unwelcome in this echo chamber,
Alan manages to echo himself, as we all do. HOL is not a chamber, still less a chamber of echoes. I thanked Hugh for his original post to this thread, I should also add thanks to him for starting and maintaining HOL. Due to this lively forum (with lots of disagreement in evidence, such as in this very thread) a greater knowledge of AP has been able to be expounded.
The council cannot always control all media, much as they seek to.
Views expressed on HOL are not always comfortable for the local council, who seek to shape public opinion via their municipal web site (not all of which is factual) and via their prodigious Communications budget including especially the Haringey People magazine. Additionally, at the time of the misconceived AP sale attempt, an outside PR firm (Lexington) was retained who alone were paid £180,000 to promote the sell-off.
In contrast to the Charity Commission's "public consultation" (that the council much influenced), last year our Trust held a real public consultation about the AP Masterplan and it met with great public support.
We may always have with us the Eeyores and glass-half-empty gloomsters. Hugh was right at the outset when he referred to this development as good news.
Le AP milestone est très bonne nouvelles, formidable. (avec apologies!)
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