Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Emergent Finsbury Park Neighbourhood Forum in Harringay Land Grab
One of the leading members of the emergent Finsbury Park Neighbourhood Forum has been in touch with me this week to let me know that the group is currently eying part of Harringay and all of Finsbury Park for inclusion within its boundaries.
Do we really want our neighbours being such a key influence over what's been Harringay for over a hundred years?
Tags for Forum Posts: finsbury park neighbourhood forum
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by andy h on
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Are they just seizing an opportunity?
How's the harringay neighbourhood forum getting on? (serious question, I don't really get involved with the forums) so, if they are getting responses from people in harringay does that not say something about the harringay forum and how they are engaging the residents of the area?? If people feel they might be better represented by others ... Why not????
Sorry,, only an observation.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Forums are optional and many people feel they are not a helpful addition. Currently no Harringay residents have n]been moved to push for a Harringay Neighbourhood Forum. However, it may be that the situation ends up somewhat like it was when CPZs were introduced. You end up having to have one, like it or not.
The 'why not' is because if an area forum has interest focussed elsewhere, it's unlikely to give primary consideration to the interests of Harringay. Perhaps you're happy with people of Finsbury Park dictating planning and transport decisions in our area. I'm not.
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Not at all Hugh, I'm no happier with residents of Holloway over influencing issues in harringay than you are. Just as I'm against the reach the ladder 'MAY' have over issues of traffic in woodland park.
I've always thought of our area as a whole, BUT...... Sometimes it can feel that what's good for those on on the west of Green Lanes MUST be good for those on the east, or south of St Anne's and north, and I'm sure that works the other way as well, (traffic debate anyone? Close Wightman?.
Surely it should be a call to those who were insistent that the GLSG should disband take up the baton and get the forum up, running and engage with us all. Or not, maybe?
I was just pointing out that when there's a vacuum something will usually try to fill it .
Not sure if I expressed all of that very well, it's late.
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Starting up and running a neighbourhood forum was not remit of the GLSG and they wouldn't have been the appropriate body to be leading any such initiative since it was very firmly led by a Council cabinet member. (And for that reason was very much more influential than any neighbourhood forum will ever be).
Whilst I didn't approve of the harsh words sent the GLSG's way, to be fair to those who sent them, they didn't demand any disbanding. That was the decision of the group itself and I suspect that it was quite a complex one influenced by all sorts of issues. I suspect that if they were at all influential, the harsh words may have been one of the straws that broke the camel's back, but not the primary cause.
You'll find hard feelings about traffic on both sides of Green Lanes. For this reason all the community groups of Harringay have been meeting to discuss working together on some win-win solutions.
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Yes, the whole point of this exercise is the determination of boundaries. I've always gone with the idea that it's people who live in a place who determine where it is - as you should know Anne. What I resist is this sort of thing being foisted on us by the Council or by interest groups. Whilst it's the views of residents in a particular area that will suggest boundaries, it's those at the helm of the project who will interpret them as they see fit.
So far 9 people in Harringay want to shift their patch to Finsbury Park - hardly a resounding call for change.
It may help Hermitage/Vale folk to consider whether their planning interests are more aligned with those either side of Green Lanes or either side of Blackstock Road.
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Permalink Reply by Julia Burrows on
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If one lives with in the N4 post code you live in Finsdury Park. This is Split between Harrangay, Hackney and Islington. This group are trying to unit us so that we can all work for the common good. That can not be bad.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The most important local boundary is the railway. The post code is just for the post office, post code snobs and racially heterogenous groups of young men.
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You're far from being the only person who thinks that post codes mark out neighbourhoods. What no one can explain to me however is why on earth a set of boundaries drawn up as a wartime measure to improve the efficiency of a 19th century postal service should be the primary determinant of neighbourhoods, our sense of place.
The codes were introduced to assist women sorters who had largely taken over sorting work from the men who had gone to war and so did not have the knowledge and experience those men had acquired over the years. It was achieved by designating a sub-area served most conveniently by the head office in each district "1" and then allocating the rest alphabetically by the name of the location of each delivery office. It had little to do with local geography or neighbourhoods, yet has since been vested by some sort of meaning never designed nor intended for it.
If these boundaries were set up today, it would likely be Amazon with the big pen. I'd be no more keen to cede the determination of something so human, so fundamental to them than I would to some early twentieth century bureaucrat.
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I am not saying that a post code makes a neighbourhood. Neighbourhods are defind by people. What I was saying, which seams to be missed by you and John, is they are trying to unit for the COMMON GOOD.
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Julia, you wrote "If one lives with in the N4 post code you live in Finsbury Park". I don't think it's wholly accurate to say John and I missed anything.
People will have to decide for themselves whose GOOD a forum centred on Finsbury Park Town will focus on. It's impossible to imagine that the interests of Hermiatge or Vale Road will always be the same as those for Blackstock or Adolphus Road. What people need to decide is what scope is the optimum for this type of grouping. I think the Crouch End group got their boundaries right from the outset. If the boundaries for the Finsbury Park variant get drawn up along the lines suggested in the maps above, for me this group will be vastly overreaching itself.
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I have live in Eade Road for 5 years and did live for 20 year in Rommily, which runs a long side Blackstock. Yes I have the same interests.
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I see. In that case I completely understand your affinity to Finsbury Park Town. Nonetheless, whilst you may feel that your interests haven't changed, if you look at how local governance works in practice, the interests of local areas are not always the same. As idealistic as we may all want to be, it is, I'm afraid, just how things work. That's why I say people need to think through the issues and decide for themselves where their interests are best served.
Do remember what this is. This is another layer of governance that will add real costs to your council tax bill. It might be valuable if there is something particular about an area which has common interests that are currently not being served. However, I'm yet to be convinced that we need them round here or that neighbourhood forums offer better relief than properly engaging with the existing local democratic structures.
There is a danger that, Brexit-style, they'll just fracture what exists by setting up more competing interest groups that add little value. Whose interests are they serving? What's the motivation behind the people driving this forward?
I see. In that case I completely understand your affinity to Finsbury Park Town. Nonetheless, whilst you may feel that your interests haven't changed, if you look at how local governance works in practice, the interests of local areas are not always the same. As idealistic as we may all want to be, it is, I'm afraid, just how things work. That's why I say people need to think through the issues and decide for themselves where their interests are best served.
Do remember what this is. This is another layer of governance. It might be valuable if there is something particular about an area which has common interests that are currently not being served. However, I'm yet to be convinced that we need them round here or that neighbourhood forums offer better relief than properly engaging with the existing local democratic structures.
There is a danger that, Brexit-style, they'll just fracture what exists by setting up more competing interest groups that add little value. Whose interests are they really serving? What's the motivation behind the people driving this forward?
Having seen them operate for a number of years now, here's some of the concerns about neighbourhood forums in London raised by some University of Westminster research:
- Overlap with business organisations (BIDs)
- Creating new and costly third tier of plans in London
- Will forums be inclusive, representative and accountable?
Here's another take on ths issue from a study out of Newcastle University:
NFs are entirely new planning institutions that can be established by a minimum of 21 self-selected local “stakeholders” where no parish council exists in the locality. On the one hand, the rhetoric of localism portrays the 2011 reform of the planning system and neighbourhood planning in particular as a move in “favour of local communities” (Department of Communities and Local Government [DCLG], 2011, p. 15) and as a way of making planning “more democratic and more effective” (DCLG, 2011, p. 6). On the other hand, the creation of NFs can be seen as a departure from democratic planning processes on the grounds that members of the NFs are not elected and do not formally represent their constituency.
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