Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Name Harringay is a Vehicle for Joined Up Planning.
Sorry this is a bit long, it's about traffic.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Tags for Forum Posts: ladder traffic solutions, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The council do practice divide and conquer. I think Paul is spot on.
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I really think we need to collect some "evidence". Volunteers for a day off car/lorry counting etc perhaps with pictures (except no pictures of police cars).
Totally behind this.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Regards 'evidence', traffic count was done by Eddie & his crew during last traffic petition. As to speeding issues along Wightman Rd the Safer Neighbourhood Team (SNT/police) can help us there with their speed cameras. No survey money needed.
We know the volume of traffic is high and goes too fast. Unless people get out of their cars the volume of traffic will stay high. Therefore the issue is speed and therefore safety for pedestrians trying to cross that road, particularly school children and the elderly. Raised speed tables with pedestrian crossings will deal with these issues.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Cllr Baker and myself are well aware of the traffic problems on the ladder and in particular on Wightman Road in relation to speed and traffic volumes. We have been liaising with the council on possible solutions since our election in 2006. It has been a slow painful process and we are well aware and are as frustrated as local residents that there has been little real progress – please don’t think it isn't for the want of trying!
We were delighted to see that TfL have included a sum of money in the LIP settlement to be used in Wightman Road for traffic calming measures and initial studies and consultation will take place with local ward councillors in April 2009. Cllr Baker and myself will be presenting the strongest case possible for radical solutions to improve road safety. I have been pressing the council to consider reducing the speed limit to 20mph on Wightman Road for some considerable time now but despite this there are always reasons why it can’t be considered (by the council). I will continue to pressurise them on this.
With regard to the reclassification of Wightman Road from a “B” road I am informed by highways that this is possible! They say it is possible to change the classification of a road. This is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Transport and is managed through the Government Office of the North East [GONE]. The Council, as Highway Authority, would need to apply to GONE and would need to include information on traffic flow and the reason for seeking a change in the classification.
I have also been liaising with Dasos Maliotis, the Neighbourhood Manager to see if he has funds for some electronic speed signs for Wightman Road (which flash up when the speed limit is broken) and this is still being investigated.
In addition I have highlighted to the council a scheme currently implemented by Portsmouth City Council. The council have implemented a city wide 20mph speed limit on all residential roads. Whilst it is too early to have significant evidence, there is some to suggest that there is increased walking, reduced speeds and lower car use as a direct result. It is argued that a 20mph limit in residential [not arterial] roads has an 80% support from residents, and as 'through' drivers will be affected by a similar 20mph zone outside their own homes they benefit so accede to the limit in other areas. It only takes 20% of drivers to adopt the lower limit for everyone else to have to follow suit.
If this evidence is backed up, this would be an easy gain. The cost for Portsmouth was £333 per road - mainly white road marking reminders. There was no strategic plan for road calming, but after implementation, roads where there were persistent problems did have rectification measures usually 'psychological' calming, eg reducing white lines, changes to road surfaces etc. The total cost city wide was under £500,000.
Residential pressure, petitions to the council and continued pressure from Cllr Baker and myself hopefully will reap rewards and we will continue to do this.
Cllr Karen Alexander
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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That's great Karen, particularly the possibility of road reclassification.
Had you any thoughts about traffic on the Ladder beyond Wightman?
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Permalink Reply by WightmanPaul on
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Thanks for this, this adds considerably to a point which I wanted to make in respect of the notion that somehow, sometime ago Wightman Road was deemed to be a B road and therefore the life of those who are foolish enough to inhabit it must be miserable. The definition [wikipedia] of a B road relates to historical patterns of use:
"B roads are numbered local routes, which have lower traffic densities than the main trunk roads, or A roads.[specify] They are typically short, not usually more than 15 miles.[specify] The classification has nothing to do with the width or quality of the physical road, and B roads can range from dual carriageways to single track roads with passing places.[specify] B roads follow the same numbering scheme as A roads, but almost always have 3- and 4-digit designations. [13]Many 3-digit B roads outside the London area are former A roads which have been downgraded owing to new road construction; others may link smaller settlements to A roads.[specify]"
Historical patterns of use derive from economic influences but also planning decisions. The responsibility for making fair planning decisions and balancing the interests of residents within the Borough whilst acting within the law lies with the Council. Nothing is making people use Wightman Road as a rat run other than an individual's need for transport and the Council's planning decisions around the ease with which rat running can occur. If the Council decides that its priority is the facility with which residents of other boroughs can move north-south then Wightman Road will remain congested. If the Council decides to protect its own residents [voters] and act in their interest then it will listen and act. Ultimately this is a political matter and in political matters numbers of voices, press coverage and a big furore always help. But let's be in no doubt of the rectitude of our stance. If the lives of residents of Wightman Road and other Ladder roads are made unnecessarily unpleasant by rat running traffic, it is because our elected Councillors in the majority party have decided that our views, and presumably our votes, are unimportant; NOT because it is impossible to make decisions to change the nature of a particular road.
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Agreed, Paul. You're clearly a born campaigner with a sharp mind and a deft touch.
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Deft may not be what we need dealing with this lot at the town hall. I fear they will be more receptive to an 'example of our power than the power of our example'. Power resides in the volume and clarity with which we speak and our best means of amplification is indeed HOL. So there's another reason we love HOL.
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Was just off to eat and watch footy but thought I'd pop over to look at the Haringey UDP website for any signs of joined up planning. AND there it was plastered across the interactive map spanning our area, the word HARINGEY.
http://www.cartoplus.co.uk/haringey/haringey.htm#
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I made most mention of Wightman Road because this seems to be where the majority of residents concerns lie but yes of course Cllr Baker and I have thoughts on the issues affecting the ladder roads - the whole area does need a holistic approach and the best way forward would be a comprehensive traffic survey, this again is something we have been pursuing with the council for some time. The one-way roads present their own problems as some take much more weight of traffic than others - I asked sometime whether there could be any review of these (as I was being asked by so many residents) and this system has been in place for some years but the council in their wisdom deemed it not necessary!
Cllr Karen Alexander
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Not my experience at all Karen. In fact the best available evidence we have at the moment, the residents' priorities survey, showed a wide concern about traffic across the Ladder.
Research shows that the negative impact on people's well-being is greatest when it affects the road they live on. So, although people genuinely care about the whole area, they have a natural desire to want improve their life quality be improving the traffic situation outside their front door.
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Hugh, your point is taken on board but don't think for one minute that my energies are only being channelled into Wightman Road, I also geniunely care about the residents on all the ladder roads and will continue to champion their cause, where individual roads have particular concerns I will take these up with the council and continue to work tirelessly to find solutions - I still remain firm in the belief that the holistic traffic survey I mentioned previously is the best way forward but I am open to suggestions and will take up the cause.
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