Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Case for a Harringay Market?
Those of you who've read any of the history stuff here, on Wikipedia, or elsewhere may have read about the street market that existed on Green Lanes up to (and perhaps after) the War.
Shefik Mehmet, Chair of the local traders' association, also told me about a Sunday market that used to be held on the site of the Arena for a number of years after it was demolished.
Then there's also the tantalising old references from the middle of the last century that places a "Harringay Market" just to the south of where the old Arena was (opposite Endymion Road).
So one way or another, there's a history of markets in Harringay.
A newsletter I received today included the following with, sadly, a broken link:
Street markets are key to regeneration - London boroughs have been accused of failing to exploit the regeneration value of markets.
So, I browsed around a little, trying to find the article the link referred to. I had no luck, but did come up with the attached year-old GLA study.
What d'ya reckon? Time to revive a Harringay Market?
Tags for Forum Posts: Local Ideas, Sainsbury's Story, harringay market
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street markets.pdf, 977 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Danzigger on
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Yes - but "a dank car park at the bottom of Alexandra Palace" was pretty harsh too!
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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But, let's remember where this started folks. Whether we like it is important and might determine the ultimate success or failure of a market, BUT, I started this out citing evidence that street markets help regeneration. No one's talking about doing local businesses out of trade. Far from it, attracting more people to shop in the area will help us all in a number of ways.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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I am of the opinion that we are well serviced for "Farmers" markets for the folk that require locally imported olives and Parma ham at five times the cost. I have nothing against organic food, in fact much prefer it but I don't like paying over the odds to line the pockets of people in a lush Hamlet in Dorset.
Local affordable organic co-ops would be preferable so that we call all enjoy organic food, not just the business men who cash in on the compassionate. A local affordable co-op on Green Lanes would be brilliant, whether there is the market, I doubt it.
I personally think any sort of market would take custom away from the traders on Green Lanes and increase traffic?
I much prefer to sustain my local community rather than some quaint village I have never heard of. I must have had a bowl of Cycnical branded Corn Flakes for tea, organic mind : )
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Organic farmers work as hard as any farmer to make a living. We should be encouraging more farmers to go organic. Yes some do charge a packet for their produce, especially with extra dirt to potatoes or feather to egg box and some food processing companies particularly think added value = extra profit. But lets not tar them all with the same brush.
So still no place to locate this market then, if indeed it's feasible. As Hugh says, a market must been seen to support the local traders or help attract extra foot traffic so school playgrounds are out, unless we are looking at the farmer's market option.
Agree we shouldn't be looking at filling up a market on/near Green Lanes with tat.
Ducketts Common might be a good place for a market, at the Queens Head end.
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Interestingly it was the Chair of the Green Lanes Traders who told me the story of the Harringay Arena Market and bemoaned its passing. It was apparently good for trade.
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This may have been the case before the countless outlets opened that attract so much traffic. It all depends what they are selling Hugh, if it's a traditional market, a lot of that can be found on Green Lanes apart from clothing. Christmas, "farmers" and other specialist markets may well attract people to the wider array of shops in Harringay. Just my initial thoughts.
I would say organic farmers work harder Matt as they are not subsidised and the yields are obviously less but that doesn't give them the right to rip people off, well it does actually if people are willing to pay it. I am not saying that they are all the same and use to use several organic co-ops in Sheffield but the mark up was no where near the mark up of the trendy "Farmers" markets I have been to in London. Sure the food is lush, but it's a simple matter of economics and I personally wouldn't use these markets on a weekly basis, it's a rip off. We use to have organic fruit and veg delivered, but stopped it when we moved house, which I keep meaning to start up again.
Maybe a trial on Ducketts would be a good indicator, I don’t know?
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I'm not by any means any sort of an expert in how local retail economies work, (so, I should probably keep it buttoned) but it seems to me that there are obvious benefits of scaling up the number and to some extent of duplicating of retail outlets locally.
Everyone benefits when a local economy expands and attracts more shoppers. That means that individual outlets paradoxically benefit from the scale offered by an increase in local competition. Quite how street markets operate in this respect, I have no idea. Nor do I have any sense of when a local retail economy might become saturated. But I don't think the situation is simple.
I guess one issue we should allow for is that we're talking one day a week or one day every other week. We also need to consider if the stalls would supplant existing local retail transactions or multiply them. Thinking of just how many locals DON'T shop on Green Lanes at all, I suspect it would be more of the latter than the former.
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Maybe time for a wee survey Hugh, via that monkey fella. Sort of Qs?:
How often do you shop/eat GL?
What for?
Where?
Do you think a weekly market would be useful?
What type of stalls in this market would you like?
Ideas for a market location?
etc ...
I know, you'll probably say people are surveyed out a the moment!
Btw, it's your festival mtg tonight isn't it?
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Absolutely.........in principle. (Mmmm, maybe, in practice)
I would.
It is.
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Maybe a lot of locals (usually Grauniaders amongst us) don't shop on GL opting to support other communities rather than Harringays. There quite possibly is a void in Harringay for some other outlets, but under the economic circumstances where we're told that one on ten shops are empty, is this the right climate to be asking for more. Don't get me wrong I would love to see more choice, more shops and a market in Harringay, I merely ask is it viable at this point. I would love to see a whole food shop on GL but understand it would probably fall flat on it’s behind.
Take for example fruit and vet, for me there are four points to consider when purchasing:
1 Is it affordable?
2 Is it organic?
3 Does it support local farmers / producers?
4 Does it support the local economy (ie local traders)?
None of them give me everything I want, yet my personal priority is supporting local my local trader and affordability, other people have different priorities.
If I shop at Sainsbury’s, the answers are: 1 YES. 2 YES 3 MAYBE 4 NO
If I shop on GL, the answers are: 1 YES. 2 NO 3 MINIMAL 4 YES
If I shop at a Farmers Market, the answers are: 1 NO. 2 YES 3 MOSTLY 4 NO
I wonder how easily convinced the council would be of such proposals? Maybe a survey could give them an indication?
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Excellent analysis there Birdy. I'd add quality or condition of fruit/veg, which includes possible particulate contamination from passing vehicles, as often GL traders like to park their produce out on the street.
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Oh yeah, very major point missed, quality [embarrassed :) ].
Farmers market: YES
Sainsburys: YES
Green Lanes: Not the best, you have to look around.
It all depends what your doing with your food as well, if you’re lobbing into a curry it will nuke most things. If you’re having a salad, it’s different.
I wash everything I buy no matter where I buy it’s from and we all inhale poisonous fumes, which is an inevitable part of city life.
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