Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Man acting supiciously on Endymion Road

Whilst putting the bins out this afternoon at 2.30 - I spotted a guy today checking out my neighbours basement flat - he didn't knock on the door - just looked at the window and front door - then came back up the stairs. I looked at him and he came over to talk to me. Said he was a painter and decorator looking for work. When I asked him for his card - he said they were in his pick up. Yep - thats what I would do if I was looking for work - leave my cards in the van. He was blatently looking at the basement flats - checked our flat on purpose and read out the door number asking me if I wanted any painting and decorating - I said no. He said he'd pop round with a couple of cards in the next day or so for me to give to my neighbours - I mentioned that I'd be in. I asked him for his name - after it taking him a while to remember his name - said you can call me Bobby. He was an Irish guy, early twenties, red/brown short hair (longer and brushed forwards ontop), blue and white striped shirt and jeans and trainers. Clean shaven, thin and avg height. If you see someone like that - checking out some flats, stringing you a line about being a decorator - can you call the police? Would like to find him before someone gets broken into. I've been burgled twice in the last couple of years and it's just annoying. There's also nothing worth taking in our flat. Apparently there's a spate of break in's up Oakfield Road so perhaps they're spreading this way.

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Permalink Reply by Sharon on September 25, 2014 at 8:46

Sharon is in the room John, so rude. We've been asked to leave the post by the woman who has been driven off HOL alone, so I am doing. But yeah, it could be seen in the same way, I agree. The Irish guy was acting well dodgy but the black guy was minding his own business, simply asking for the time. It was confirmed that he is a local, known handyman and not a criminal as he was described .if he had committed a crime, maybe with his Saw ( a be heading????, really!!!!) then a description might have been appropriate. Kat got it wrong. There should've been no thread, he was criminalised on page. That's the point.

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Permalink Reply by Pete Thorniley on September 25, 2014 at 9:57

Kat was wrong in the sense that it turned out this man was not a threat.

She was not wrong to say that she'd felt uncomfortable.

HoL could have given her the reassurance that she needed and everyone would have gone away happy.

Unfortunately, people decided to accuse her of being racist. This didn't help anyone and had no foundation in fact. You persist in saying there were "racist under tones" to her post. I still can't see them. Can you explain why it is racist to describe someone with reference to their observable characteristics?

I appreciate you have a genuine concern that someone might have been stigmatised unfairly, and I too wouldn't like to be discussed online as a threatening character. That said, if I was wondering round with a saw randomly approaching women walking alone I might find it amusing in retrospect to think of the image I presented. In any case, nobody has been "criminalised".

I just don't see that any of this is anything to do with racism. Racism is a real problem in our society, surely it would be better to face it down in places where it actually exists than to stand up to it by accusing people who feel vulnerable of sinister motives.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on September 25, 2014 at 11:14

I hadn't read that thread and I have to say, Sharon, that I see no basis for an accusation of racism. Making allegations of that sort should be done ONLY where there is a very substantial basis for it. In this case I see none. If I were in Kat's shoes, I'd be very upset and angry that people should presume to make such judgements about me with no evidence.

I've tried to establish If I'm missing something here from my comfortable white middle class perspective. I've spent a little, admittedly not a great deal, of time looking for others' perspectives on the question. Google offers little, bar some online discussions. There's this article from the Independent newspaper a couple of years ago, but what I was really hoping for was a balanced piece from someone who works or studies in the field of race issues. Has anyone seen anything?

From my current level of understanding, I accept that the media's past indiscriminate and unnecessary use of skin colour and other minority group features did serve to stigmatise minority groups. Whilst this should not mean that any use of race or any other evident aspect of a person in a description is discriminatory, making such references does seem to leave one open to accusations. For this reason, in particular where race is concerned, many people avoid referring to a minority group feature at all. It's the safest option and I can see why people choose that route.

With regards to race in particular, for those who elect to continue including skin colour in describing a person, I guess they will have to accept, right or wrong, that they may be open to accusations of racism. For those of us in receiving mode, we can at least seek to make some fair judgements before jumping to conclusions and making accusations. Seeking to establish in our own minds if there is any reason to assume racism and explaining the reason for our conclusions ought to be a bare minimum.

In the particular case of the 'Wightman Saw Man' thread, I can see no reason whatsoever to make an assumption that the original poster was being racist or has racist views.

Permalink Reply by Kat on October 11, 2014 at 23:12

My hubby is in fact black, so no, not racist and I hate being accused of being racist!

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Permalink Reply by Lauren on September 25, 2014 at 13:30

The simple truth here is that some people like stirring up trouble because they seem to have nothing better to do. It is very clear who these people are and that they are not very happy people.

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Permalink Reply by Sharon on September 25, 2014 at 13:43

You see, these kinds of remarks are just snide, rude, personal and unfair, not 'simple truth' To disagree with something or to have a different point of view is not to stir trouble Lauren. I presume you are referring( very unsubtley) to me as you called me a 'shit stirrer' the other day on another thread and also said I was 'audacious'. Guess what Lauren, I'm busy and 'I'm Happy!' smiley face, smiley face, smiley face, winking face, peace sign.

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Permalink Reply by KP on September 25, 2014 at 13:58

Lauren I totally agree with you. Don't bother to reply to the retort you just got. They want the satisfaction of knowing they got a rise out of you so just ignore it!!!