Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Hell that is Wood Green
Yesterday, I had the misfortune to find myself in the shopping mall. Walking out the big automatic doors and into the crowd of Star Wars pub extras who were smoking, spitting and squabbling on the footpath I witnessed what for me sums up the whole carbuncle on the arse of Haringey that is Wood Green High Road. One of the characters stormed through the crowd with his status dog in tow. I was reflecting on the fact that ‘status’ dogs don't seem to work (as the people who have them only ever seem to be what everyone else in society would consider low status). Everything suddenly went quiet except the ever present sirens. The status dog had stopped and released its copious bowels all over the footpath. It was like turning on the light in an HMO; the cockroaches screamed and scattered. The dog owner laughed and walked on. It was probably one of the most disgusting things I have seen or smelt in London. Eventually the crowd returned and watched the next horde trample the mess up and down the road. There was no-one to turn to, no-one to clean up and more importantly no-one with the authority to challenge and/or shoot the dog owner. Things just returned to normal.
The whole experience made me think how the council, local police and traders believe that we're all animals if they are happy for us to have to deal with this every time we go to the High Road. It's easy enough for me to hop on a bus and head off to Crouch End or Islington or even Enfield to shop but if you're older or disabled and have trouble getting around or not enough money for the bus it must be pretty grim to face it every day. Imagine how the standard little old lady dreads heading out into the crowds, litter, phlegm, smoke and anti-social behaviour of Wood Green every morning to get the milk.
Short of manning water cannons at each end of the High Road and employing some mercenaries with batons to control the crowds, I don’t know what can be done. Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing? Or do we just give up, bulldoze the lot and install a waterhole in the middle and let the law of the jungle and the status dog owners prevail?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy Palmer on
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Yes I honestly don't think he was local - you know you get to know the local characters in your area - some lovely and some less so, but he isn't someone I have ever seen or heard of before, probably just passing through and hopefully not an angry lawyer :) we are still to this today really puzzled about the whole experience its probably the weirdest thing that has ever happened to me
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Permalink Reply by Sharon on
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Unfortunately Jamie, there are idiots like that wherever you go, those problems are not exclusive to WG or Haringey. It seems like you've had some extreme and unpleasant experiences.
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Permalink Reply by Jamie To on
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Thanks Sharon! I wish this was one of life's random one offs, this has been going on for years. I have lived in Haringey for over 30 years and it just seems to get worse and worse and the years go by. It does not help that Haringey Council and the Police do not do anything about it. If you complain or address any issues, you are made to feel you are a trouble maker. I used to not say anything, but enough is just enough. If the council/government allow this sort of this behaviour then they should address all issues that arise and not turn a blind eye.
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Not a lot phases me I don't suppose. I think as high streets go, it's pretty good. There's just not enough space nor greenery. Pedestrianising it would be great. The scariest thing that happened to me there, I've just remembered was a bunch of kids chucking tins of beer from the multi story car par into the crowd below, that was a few years ago. I lived in WG for many years and because of how busy it gets would usually do my shopping early in the morning after the school drop. With so many people visiting ( second busiest high st after Oxford st I believe) there will undoubtedly be a broad cross section of society there, including some with 'bad manners'
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The PC brigade who have nothing else to compare it to and rather close their eyes and let it happen? Who are you referring to TBD?
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Thanks TBD! This has been going on way too long and needs to stop! I want to know what Haringey Council propose to do about it? Or are they way to busy (as all year around) and even more so now that the election is coming up? Ummm.. we need to rethink about who we should vote for when the time comes. Let me think! Labour I believe have had their chances and they have failed miserably. Maybe time to give others a chance. What have we got to lose? It cannot get any worse than it is.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Pike on
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Here is what the 20th century society say about Wood Green Shopping City. http://www.c20society.org.uk/botm/wood-green-shopping-city-london/
Makes an interesting read of how these 60s mega-structures have stood the test of time and how they are now perceived by society that use them. The 20TH Century Society is obviously very pro mega brutalism and doesn't really look at the human factor in this. Funnily enough I looked at a scheme involving the Waltham Cross version. WC town centre was blighted by a pedestrianisation with a by-pass/ ring road slowly eroding the edges of the urban form; poor quality units with poor frontage; and large inactive areas.
Wood Green does do slightly better with an active street front integrated with the high road. The shops are good and other uses extend the operating times of the area beyond normal retail hours. Not sure how good the residential units are. Are they good to live in? Good community?
As a town centre though 2OCS do go on to discuss the lack of the town square or public space
Is the design to blame or not for antisocial behaviour and the perceived negative impact of the built environment? Or can everything be solved with a Waitrose and an art house cinema like at the Barbican or the Brunswick Centre?
OTHER LINKS
PAGE 36 onwards: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=za2AAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA50&lpg... - Attachments:
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Permalink Reply by Dominic on
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It's not necessarily the architecture that's to blame IMO. I think the building itself could be better (particularly the staircases up to the car park, etc.), but the shop units are pleasant enough. The two centres you mention (Barbican and Brunswick) are both surrounded by affluent residents, this can't be a coincidence. Maybe as the gentrification of Haringey pushes ever Eastwards Shopping City will get caught up in the wave of change? It's still a way off and will need some serious investment to make it happen, but I'd love to have a Waitrose in Wood Green, a Lego Shop would be even better!
Baby steps though. Maybe the first thing is a zero tolerance approach to the behaviour that kicked off this thread? Why don't the council track down the perpetrator and heavily fine him, and destroy the dog in the process? Why don't the owners of the "Mall" lend a hand in tracking these people down? It really isn't rocket science... I can't imagine this behaviour being accepted at Westgate.
Overall though, despite my earlier statement about the architecture not being the problem, I agree with one of the views in the c20 article that these shopping centres "are amongst the least happy monuments of post-war British modernism."
Bluewater for me! :)
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Permalink Reply by Rachella on
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My question to the "no traffic" camp is: Where should the traffic go? People live in Victorian homes on both side of Shopping City. I live in one of them: Noel Park, the historic conservation area to the north/east of the high road. Would you have our homes bulldozed and a highway diverted through our neighbourhood?
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