Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
no right turn out of hewit road
Hi there, just keeping this one going. There are a couple of weeks left to make objections to the proposals to stop traffic turning right out of hewit road.
As discussed on a couple of previous threads, this could significantly increase traffic heading down Pemberton Road, right next to an Infant school, a junior school and the children's centre.
If you think it's unreasonable to create a situation that directly increases risk to children travelling to these venues then do take a couple of minutes to object. Instructions below...
Send an email to
frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk (with 'no right turn' in the title line) outlining your objection.
Whilst it's fine to explore options to redistribute traffic around the ladder...ideas like this which will only result in displacing traffic towards areas of high family footfall is not a sensible one in my opinion.
Cheers
Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nick G-T on
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Has the gagging order been lifted? I think you're the first one to come out and say there was an organised effort by Hewit Road residents to fix your traffic woes at the expense of your neighbours.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Stillman on
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ah I see the bitching is back. poor caroline; on the one hand she's got people saying no one on hewit cares because they didn't respond to the consultation. now nicholas is sharpening his claws and criticising caroline for doing just that.
what I've gathered from reading this forum and from what my neighbours across the way tell me is that a number of roads made organised efforts to respond to the consultation. good for them all. isn't that how democratic representation works?
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Permalink Reply by Paul Harvey on
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This is exactly what I'm encouraging Andrew - people need to respond to these consultations otherwise significant changes get made that impact on people's lives. Knocking on doors and rousing the support of your neighbours is very sensible - the vast majority will have no idea that there are plans to alter traffic flow and won't therefore have the opportunity to consider the implications and how it might impact on them and others in our community.
Only a very few people (relative to the overall local population) actually participate in this online forum and will be aware of the plans, the majority won't.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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This has been described as a once in a generation opportunity for doing something about the traffic on Hewit, what i think is sad is that if its true then its also a once in a generation opportunity for doing something about the wider Ladder traffic.
The other thing that is sad is the total absence of comment from the people in charge - GLSG members and our local councilors. All the fuss being made about the St Anns selection fraud but does it really matter if when something like this is happening our councillors are totally AWOL.
Come on David, Gina, Karen - the counts and projections presented here are conclusively showing this change would cause a massive traffic increase by two primary schools and a nursery, what are your views on that? Will you be submitting objections? Explain why we should vote for you next year if you stay silent on this?
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Or how about the following that would solve a lot of the probems with a single no right turn:If something like this does happen on Hewit then there should be some other changes elsewhere to help spread the load, no one has commented about the suggestion to also reverse Pemberton, wouldn't that help?I don't think it matters which street someone lives on, or how long they've lived there. If there was some unfair change about to move a whole lot of traffic to my street i'd hope others in the wider community would jump in to help prevent it.However bad it might be on Hewit just simply moving the traffic to some other street can't be fair. People have talked about getting a more equal spread of traffic across the Ladder roads but this change does not do that, it will make Hewit disproportionally quiet and Pemberton and Beresford disproportionally busy.A good portion of the Hewit traffic is doing this:
So instead of a new no right turn out of Hewit put it on the A504 so you can't turn into Wightman:
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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I have indeed been following the discussion thread on HoL relating to the introduction of a no right turn out of Hewit Road. I wanted to set out my thoughts on the issue.
Let me first say that Cllr Schmitz and I have been trying to work with residents and the council for some considerable time to try and find a solution to the problems of traffic loads across the ladder and in particular Hewit Road.
In the 2010 election we made a ward pledge that if we were to take control of Haringey Council we would make carrying out a comprehensive/holistic traffic survey on the Harringay Ladder a priority and that would have been undertaken very quickly. We will be make the same pledge for next years election because we genuinely believe that the only way to tackle this issue head on is for such a traffic survey and traffic counts and experts to draw up a viable, workable and sustainable plan which will benefit all residents across the ladder roads. I entirely agree that “tinkering piecemeal” with roads here and there is not the way to find a solution. The council have not been willing to undertake such a traffic survey despite considerable pressure from Cllr Schmitz and myself. We are therefore both of the view that something ought to at least be tried. Cllr Schmitz and I have had a number of meetings (on site) to discuss the issue with the highways department and have put forward a number of suggestions that might alleviate some of the load on Hewit Road without unduly burdening other roads. However, Cllr Nilgun Canver, as cabinet member for the environment at the time, made the decision that the no right turn option should be trialled.
As you know the issue has come to a head on Hewit Road because of the Mayor’s Outer London Fund and TfL monies being spent on Green Lanes and the wish to make a positive impact on the St Anns Road junction. The council’s initial view was to impose a reversal of Hewit Road and this led to a lot of opposition from residents in adjoining roads who quite rightly anticipated that traffic displaced from Hewit Road would adversely affect their roads. We were not happy with the planned reversal of Hewit Road and the idea of a no right turn onto Green Lanes was raised again - it was in fact an alternative option put forward by residents on Beresford Road. Whilst this is not an ideal solution we felt that it was worth trying for a trial period and that is where we are now.
It is absolutely essential that the council carry out traffic counts before this trial is started on Hewit Road and also the adjacent north-south ladder road otherwise it will be impossible to later make comparisons between traffic flows before and after the implementation of the change. To this end Cllr Schmitz has made such a request to the highways department that such counts are done as a priority before any further work is done.
I really wish there was an easy answer to this but you can rest assured that Cllr Schmitz and I will continue to put all our energies into finding a solution.
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Thanks for the input Karen. Can I just check that this proposal is indeed for a 'no right turn' on a trial basis?
The flyer does not mention that this is a trial - unless we've misread it or missed something? My understanding is that this proposal is for a permanent change and not a trial.
If it is a trial, can you confirm how long it is being trialled for, and on what basis any impact will be evaluated?
How would the council decide whether or not the trial would merit a permanent change or not? If there is any further info you can ascertain and share that would be helpful.
Thanks
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Yes, my understanding is that the no right turn out of Hewit abroad will be on a trial basis. I don't know all details as yet but will be updating as I get them. Cllr Schmitz and I have made it quite clear that we would only support this on a trial basis, in the absence of a much needed and demanded comprehensive traffic survey of the whole area. We have also asked for traffic counts before and after implementation and a commitment to act on what those counts throw up. I believe this that the Ladder Community Safety Partnership hold the same view.
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Hi Karen, if the mood is now to just try things without waiting for the holistic traffic survey then what to we need to do to get the northern Ladder changes to happen? Can we have your support for a 'trial' of that?
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Let me address both Ant's and John T's questions.
Would I support the gating of Frobisher Road? I've read the post and indeed I can see how it would work but I want to reiterate the point that I don't support piecemeal tinkering road by road so I think this would be a good option which I would support but only after a comprehensive traffic survey of the area.
The no right turn out of Hewit Road was a decision made by Cllr Nilgun Canver to increase the success of the works happening on Green Lanes. Unfortunately the decision making for any changes on any road are simply not In our gift. That change would have happened whether we supported it or not.
As for other ideas to address the Hewit Road problem, one idea was to prevent turning into Hewit from just one direction on Wightman Road, this would have halved the traffic although other roads would also have to absorb the traffic but essentially a better distribution. Another idea, perhaps more controversially, would be to reverse Warham and another nearby road because Warham is another road which takes a huge amount of traffic.
Cllr Schmitz and I remain committed to resolving this issue and we will keep pressuring the council to carry out the much needed holistic traffic survey.
As previously mentioned one of our ward pledges to Harringay is that if the Libdems take control of the council next May the traffic survey will happen - then we can really start to address the traffic problems here. The council has made a complete hash of dealing with the traffic issues here over the years and the closing of the gardens has made things a whole lot worse so it really is in the hands of residents to vote intelligently for the people who are really going to deliver for them and sort out things that really matter to residents, rather than along party lines or looking at the national picture. I know that is asking people to be bold and courageous but it is necessary to generate the changes we so desperately need in Haringey.
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Thanks heaps for replying Karen.
1) it still seems like there is unfair double standards - despite the lack of a traffic survey and despite that this Hewit change will happen whether you and David support it or not, you have anyway given it your support. So why can't you give the northern Ladder changes your support too?
2) its nice to have the pledge to do a traffic survey if the Libdems take control of the council, but i'm not sure thats terribly likely to happen (sorry, best of luck though). So if you stick doggedly to the "no changes till the council does a traffic survey" line then that really amounts to not supporting doing anything. As much as you remain committed to resolving this issue, sticking with that position means nothing will actually change for us here in Harringay.
So I think you should change your line, which would fix both those points (1) and (2).
A traffic survey isn't really so much of a panacea, it tells you the counts at various points but it doesn't tell you what to do about it, and, we already know what the busy spots are and where most of the traffic is going (and what to do about it!).
The northern Ladder roads get lots of through traffic avoiding Turnpike Lane. Its also an area that gets more pedestrian traffic than the rest of the Ladder - there is the primary school, two parks, two children's playgrounds, several nurseries, several child minders, its the walking route for many to/from the tube, Hornsey mainline station, and the bus station.
Pedestrians and traffic don't mix, and this is shown by the area around NHP having one of the worst amounts of traffic incidents of all the primary schools in the Haringey borough. Fixing this area is a much more demonstrably deserving than Hewit.
The proposed changes for Frobisher and Falkland Rd would fix all the northern Ladder and not by just moving most of the traffic to other Ladder roads but by moving it back to Turnpike Lane and Green Lanes where it belongs. And, with next year the council already planning to look at changes to the section of Green Lanes by Ducketts Common and the Frobisher/Alfoxton junction there is a real opportunity to change things for the better if our councillors would get behind it.
Interestingly, i've just now heard from Tony Kennedy confirming that this Hewit change is permanent not a trial, but saying that it will be evaluated after 6 months and there will be discussion with the ward councillors to "agree a way forward". He also agreed it was inevitable that traffic on Pemberton (thats the one with the primary schools and children's centre) would increase, but suggesting that the Green Lanes public realm improvements had priority.
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Ant, you raise some very valid points. I'm not saying I won't support other options, in fact I did say in my previous post that I liked the idea and it could work. As you say with the possible changes to the Green Lanes junction next year it would be a good idea to look at the feasibility of your suggestion. I stand by my opinion that tinkering with things road by road isn't the answer and I'd still like to see the traffic survey done but I'm very happy to keep an open mind on any possible solution. This is all about political will, it doesn't seem the the current administration have the will to do anything about it on a large scale. Let's keep talking.
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