Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Police pepper spray and then shoot 5 abandoned dog
Hello all, my first post.
I am preparing a police complaint about a big fat white dog that the police pepper sprayed then shot 5 times in the Harringay Passage by Seymour Road in the early hours of last Thursday the 18th July.
The dog had ben left abandoned and tied to the railings there sometime on the night of Wednesday the 17th.
If any one witnessed the dog or the person seen standing with the dog for some time before leaving, or has any information about this event at all, please let me know.
If you require more information about this from me I will email you the outline of events as I understand them at the moment.
Thanks,
Mark Townson.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mark Townson on
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Hello again,
So sorry for delay, below is the complaint in full I logged with the police yesterday.
I have only changed / removed the identity of 'a local resident who is a member of the Bedfordshire police force' who is joining me in my compliant as he does not wish to be identified as such in his local community.
COMPLAINT TO POLICE
Copies to:
RSPCA
David Lammey, MP Tottenham
Animal Welfare Officer Haringey
Dear Sir, Madame,
I would like to complain about what I feel was the unacceptable behavior of the police on Seymour Road in the early hours (approx. 1.40am - 3.30am) of Thursday the 18th July towards an abandoned dog that they were called for. This treatment of this dog has left some local residents if not traumatised then incredibly upset, sad and angry about the events I will set out below. In addition we feel the police treated us in authoritarian and unnecessarily brusque and rude fashion.
The main points that I wish to raise and will elaborate with statements from other local residents I received afterwards are:
Unacceptable cruelty to a dog.
Unacceptable modem operandi in general towards aggressive (or NOT in this case) dogs.
Unacceptable treatment and rudeness to local residents.
Unacceptable waste of police time.
Basically a dog was left abandoned and tied by it’s collar and leash to a railing opposite the Harringay Passage on Seymour Road, just outside my house, sometime before 22.30hrs on Wednesday 17th July. Local residents Trevor and Neil (Surnames and addresses available) state that they saw a fat white dog at approx. 22.30 sitting quietly, tied up to the railings with a chubby man of Turkish appearance, approximately in his thirties, who was on his phone. (We are trying to find out who this man is, and if we do we will pass the information on to the police).
According to police radio calls logged reference CAD676 18TH July, the police received a phone call at approx. 01.30 stating that there was an aggressive dog tied to the railings as detailed above ‘about to break free’, and when they arrived at approx. 01.45 the dog was already free and aggressive.
However, S-- O-- of Seymour Road states that she returned from work at approx. 02.00 - 02.15 and after warnings from police about a dangerous dog asked to see the dog because she was worried that it may belong to her partner. She states that the dog (not her partner’s) was STILL SECURED to the railings, sitting and leaning against them in a very frightened fashion, surrounded by police who were shinning torches in it’s eyes and who she suspected of pepper spraying the dog due to the aroma she detected in the air. The dog was NOT acting aggressively, was NOT trying to break free, I repeat the dog was frightened and SITTING DOWN, still tied to the railings.
Sev is frightened of dogs, and indeed the police dog in a parked police car frightened her so much when it barked at her in a very aggressive way that she ran TOWARDS the abandoned dog in question which did not frighten her at all, at which time the police stopped her and told her to go into her house and remain there. She states that the way the dog looked and the way the police officers were treating it made her feel really sad and sorry for the dog.
(Note: if the dog was already free by the time the police arrived as claimed by the police, and was aggressive, would it not have run away already?).
At approx. this time my wife woke me up to say that it sounded like a dog was in great pain (she actually said it sounded like a dog was being tortured) outside the house. I dressed and went outside to find MANY police men who ordered me back inside my house due to a dangerous, aggressive ‘Pit Bull’ dog that was by now lose and which they had managed to trap in the Harringay Passage. At the same time that I came out of my house a local resident / friend and Bedfordshire police officer was outside my house and had a brief conversation with me about what was going on before the Met police ordered us (rudely) back inside our homes. He said ‘they have pepper sprayed that dog, can you smell it?’. At this point a police officer approached me as I was still in my front garden, and said they were trying to capture a dangerous dog ‘as humanly as possible’. I asked if the dog had been pepper sprayed, at which point the officer confirmed that they had pepper sprayed the dog; at that moment the officer became more dictatorial and ordered me back into my house.
The fact that the dog had been pepper sprayed just seemed wrong to me, if it was aggressive it would just be really angry and aggressive, and the barking I could hear occasionally was not the repetitive aggressive barking with growls, just individual barks of a confused dog, so I called the RSPCA.
At this point I had not been told that the Trojan (firearms) unit was being deployed, only that it was unsafe for me to come out of my house because of the dog, so therefore I reasoned that to look over the garden wall of my neighbors house (who are like family to me, and I have permission to be in their garden at any time of the day or night) would not endanger me and therefore not be a problem with the police. What I saw was a fat, frightened white dog that looked like a cross between a Boxer and a Staffordshire dog not a Pit Bull, again leaning and cowering against the wall, trying it’s best to hide behind a lamp post. At this time an RSPCA inspector called me back, I asked him to come as quickly as possible, he told me hew was in Southhall and could be with me in about an hour and a bit.
At this point the police came through my neighbors house; I told them the RSPCA was on their way and then they threatened to arrest me and told me to get back into my house which I did. Shortly after the police shot the dog 5 TIMES! How could a trained firearms officer miss at a range of a few yards a stationary dog? Maybe 2 shots, but 5?
My wife and I were in tears, my neighbor S says she feels so sad about the dog and cant stop thinking about it, my neighbors whose garden I went in say they were frightened by the police who entered their house and the young couple who live there with their parents are now considering leaving. The local resident Bedfordshire police officer says the police behavior both to the dog and us was unacceptable and will join me in my formal complaint. My neighbors who witnessed the dog cant believe the dog was sprayed and shot as it was not aggressive. The police radio reports were not correct because the dog was NOT lose when they arrived and not aggressive, just frightened and it sounds like very intimidated by the police when they arrived and the RSPCA had said they could come. The police radio log states that the council could not send a dog warden, why didn’t they call the RSPCA?
Spraying a secured dog is animal cruelty, confirmed to me by the RSPCA.
Spraying an aggressive dog is not health and safety compliant as it would craze the dog and make it run off and endanger the public.
Spraying an attacking dog has no effect as stated to me by the special constable PC Ali (who we all know and love in this locality), he related an occasion when a viscous fighting dog was set on a police officer who sprayed it, and it had no effect at all in stopping the dog. For these reasons I would like the pepper spraying of dogs to be seriously reconsidered as a modem operandi by the police, especially in a case like this where essentially a fat pet was sprayed while still secured to a railing and no threat to the public.
Using fire arms in our street for a frightened dog that was not trying to get free and savage the neighborhood as suggested by the police is outrageous.
Last but not least, at the end of this sad affair there must have been possibly 15- 20 police officers and 6 or 7 vehicles including at the end the Trojan fire arms unit…...FOR ONE FRIGHTENED DOG! What a ridiculous waste of police time; one officer left at the scene as the dog was secured and NOT trying to break free (and maybe given a bowl of water and some food) waiting for the RSPCA to arrive would have been more than sufficient.
I am a law abiding family man who respects the police and greatly appreciates the great work done on the Harringay Ladder to make this a safer neighborhood, but these events have greatly reduced both that respect and the joy my wife and I have in living here. Thank God my daughter is seven months old and not seven years old so I would have to explain what had happened to her.
I understand the police have to deal with genuinely aggressive and dangerous dogs, and heir own health and safety must come first, but in this instance the police got it totally wrong with what at the end of the day was a frightened, fat pet who died a cruel and lonely death. The police totally overreacted to the dog that was not a threat, and I feel were cruel to the dog and rude, overbearing and ‘gung-ho’ for lack of a better word to my self and the local resident Bedfordshire police officer.
I thank you for your time in considering my and my neighbors complaints and remain yours sincerely,
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Thanks for posting this Mark. What a dreadful thing to have happened.
As I mentioned earlier on this thread, I saw a lot of the police activity towards the end of this event and I'm really stunned that it was all focused on a poor dog. I hope you get a full response and look forward to hearing what it is.
By the way, I think you should anonymise some of the people you name in your most recent post (and their addresses). Obviously the police need those details but I don't think they need to be up on the site. I'd have though just a first name would do. (I'm sure you know how to do this - but if you don't, you can use the 'edit' option to edit your own post).
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Permalink Reply by dont want to give name on
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Mark, you wrote: "in this instance the police got it totally wrong".
There are often two sides to every story. But not always.
To speculate:
In Haringey, the place where the riots started, the old bill would be wary of mobs of people forming who could be hostile to them.Mobs of people could have congregated over this incident, attracted by the barking of the dog and prescence of old bill. People could have got on their mobiles and before you know it a hostile gang could have been their harassing the police.
That is a powerfull incentive for old bill to try and end the incident as quickly as possible.
Maybe this is why they pepper sprayed the dog, to try and silence the dog.
Perhaps this is cruel to the dog or not.
In the quiet early hours of the night as you mention there may not be a trained dog warden available to deal with the dog. And the RSPCA may not be able to come out.
Also old bill needed their police to be all over haringey not just with one dog as not good use of police resources. So they had to end it and move on to help victims of crime elsewhere.
Also you mention the cross breed that you think the dog was. The police might not be experts in identifying the characteristics of the cross breed of a dog. So are cautious.
If a dog seems like a dangerous dog to them; and no dog wardens or RSPCA to take the dog they can't leave the dog there all night. They don't have the manpower to stay there all night.
So to shoot the dog might be the best thing to do. As the police need to go and be out looking for criminals like muggers and rapists not waiting for dog wardens and RSPCA to turn up.
Also someone might have claimed they have nearly been attacked or bitten by the dog.
As for old bill being rude, old bill have to be rude to try and make the public do what they want them to do. In this case guns were used it seems so old bill had to be rude to you for your own safety to make you go indoors quickly. As a mild polite approach might not have been effective.
I am not saying pepper spraying dogs or shooting dogs is right, but the police have to do what they have to do so they can get out onto the streets and arrest bad people. Rather than spend lots of time with one dog which uses up lots of policemen.
I could be wrong however.
Personally I think old bill are very brave to police haringey at all after what happened in the riots.
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I understand what you say, mainly I would like the police to review their use of pepper spray against dogs in general. Also as the dog in question was still tied up, but their report says it was already lose.
A police officer was recently mauled by a fighting Pit Bull, so I understand their caution, but this dog was so obviously a fat, frightened pet.
lastly police time would have been much better served f they had called the RSPCA as soon as they arrived, they responded to my call quickly enough.
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Yeah, thats why I have gone to considerable trouble to put this complaint in, but I am trying to understand all views.
My own personal view is that I am some what traumatised and very very angry.
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Old Bill? Is he a relative of Old Gregg?
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Permalink Reply by Colinloves on
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maybe a UFO would come down and start shooting Iron beams at everything.
Wot a wet excuse to justify such a terrible thing. No wonder you dont want to give a name.
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I think I read your reply to late to edit out the address, I think you only have 15 mins? please advise if otherwise. Thanks.
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Jesus, that's just crazy. Please post back when you hear back re your complaint. The poor dog.. Des not bear thinking about.
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Mark, I am not doubting that anything that you have written is true.
And I think you want old bill to review their use of pepper spray on dogs, or abandoned dogs.
Mark, if the police had called out the RSPCA or haringey council dog wardens in the quiet early hours of the morning,then they might have been waiting for hours for the RSPCA to arrive. This would have meant police officers would have had to police the incident for hours. This would have meant that those police officers would not have been able to respond to 999 emergency calls, or non emergency calls in other areas of Haringey of people who might have been a victim of crime..
I am not old bill and am not connected to old bill in any way. I am merely speculating.
I think as you say the haringey council dog warden and RSPCA that you contacted can reply to you on this.
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The police did not need 20 officers there, one of my points is waste of police time, the dog was just sitting leaning against a wall and trembling, not trying to break out of the police cordon and savage the neighbourhood as they tried to make out.
Also I called the RSPCA and an inspector called back and said he was on his way and would be there in a little over an hour, so the very important Trojan (arms unit) did not need to be called.
As I said, the fact that just about every police officer in Haringey was tied up with a frightened pet who they SAID was a aggressive dog but who local people who saw the dog before, during at the end said was not aggressive but passive or later frightened is one of my complaints.
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Personally I think the police should be subject to the same kind of scrutiny over their actions as any other public service.
There probably isn't much to learn from lots of speculation about why they did or didn't respond in a certain way. But it's worth repeating the fact that, on the basis of Mark's account and the personal experience of having watched a great deal of it, this incident took HOURS and a lot of police to sort out - so the argument that it was an efficient way of dealing with the immediate problem holds very little water.
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