Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Thameslink Franchise Consultation - Have your say on this
This is worth having a look at and having you say. It will affect the two stations that serve Harringay Ward, Harringay and Hornsey. Do let me have your thoughts either here or at karen.alexander.haringeylibdems@gmail.com
Thameslink Franchise
Introduction
The Department for Transport is consulting on a new franchise covering the existing First Capital Connect Thameslink and Great Northern franchises and the franchise for Southern and some services from the South East franchise. The closing date for the consultation is 23 August. The new franchise [the biggest that has ever been let] would form the basis for the full new Thameslink services expecting to be delivered in 2018.
TfL analysis shows the GN route south of Bowes Park will be standing room only in morning peak services in 2021.
Consultation document attached below. taken from the DoT website.
Proposed Franchise
The franchise is to last for 7 years with a possible 2 year extension. Five bidders have been shortlisted by DfT [Abellio Thameslink, First Thameslink (current franchise holder), Govia Thameslink, MTR Corporation Thameslink and Stagecoach Thameslink]. MTR and First have approached the Council seeking our comments. DfT is expecting to issue the Invitation to Tender [ITT] to shortlisted applicants in October 2012 with the winning bid announced in May 2013 for commencement in September 2013. Southern services would become part of the franchise in July 2015 with South East services by December 2018.
The franchise includes Great Northern services which serve Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey, Harringay and Finsbury Park stations in Haringey. The GN serves such destinations as Peterborough, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Stevenage, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford into and out of Kings Cross and Moorgate. Some of the longer distance GN services such as to Cambridge and Peterborough which currently terminate at Kings Cross would transfer to the new Thameslink line through Farringdon and Blackfriars. The DfT raise the possibility of some of the longer distance GN services not serving the Thameslink core route between Kings Cross and Blackfriars could transfer to the new Intercity East Coast franchise but these longer distance services such as to Peterborough and Stevenage would not serve Haringey stations with the exception of Finsbury Park.
Current Services
Current service frequencies for Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey and Harringay are as follows:
Monday to Friday
- Moorgate/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 6 trains per hour peak and off peak
- Moorgate/Bowes Park – 3 trains per hour peak and off-peak
Saturday and Sunday
- Kings Cross/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 4 trains per hour
- Kings Cross/Bowes Park – 2 trains per hour
Services to Finsbury Park are very high frequency.
Issues to consider for Consultation Response
- Should the Council be seeking enhanced service frequencies for the GN route?
- What are the priorities for improving customer experience?
- What station improvements should be sought eg ticket offices, gating?
- Is there a need for better cycle parking at Haringey stations?
- Does the current rolling stock meet the needs of passengers? Is there a need for new rolling stock?
- Is there scope for innovative fares or ticketing arrangements?
- Any other comments?
Tags for Forum Posts: first capital connect, great northern line, public transport, trains
- Attachments:
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consultation-thameslink.pdf, 930 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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A (pro forma) response in a few minutes ago from the DTI re Thameslink franchise:
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to the consultation on the new Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise.
We have taken on board the comments you have made and we are considering these together with all responses we receive.
The responses we get are important to us and help inform our decision on what we include in the Invitation to Tender for the new franchise.
We will publish a document in either late September or early October setting out what responses we received to the consultation exercise. The document will explain whether or not we have included suggestions/responses made via consultation in our final specification and our reasons for this. It is possible that in some cases we may put issues that have been raised to bidders to consider how these might be taken forward. Where we do this, we will explain why we have chosen to do this and how bidders will be required to respond.
Finally, I regret that due to the anticipated volume of responses that we receive to this consultation it will not be possible to enter into individual correspondence.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Regards
John MacQuarrie
Franchise Sponsor
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Middleton on
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Network Rail report on the work http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/Finsbury-Park-to-Alexandr...
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Permalink Reply by Nick G-T on
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This morning I noticed several of the tracks in the Hornsey sidings opposite platform 1 were being removed. It gave me hope that Hornsey would be getting a new platform and benefiting from the additional services planned. Does anyone know whether this is the case?
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Permalink Reply by Arkady on
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Still no word on that as far as I know.
It's more likely to be preparation for the new Hornsey Thameslink depot. I know they have recently commenced work to connect the St Pancras tunnel to the East Coast Mainline, and the platform extensions at Finsbury Park are complete.
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This has worked out well - the DfT's response has just been published. Service levels to H&H will be maintained or bettered. Even more excitingly, we will have evening & weekend services to Moorgate from December 2015!
The consultation response template that I posted above was quoted in full in the appendix, and appears to have been among the most common responses to the consultation, so thanks to everyone who submitted it.Special thanks to my fellow Haringey Liberal Democrats for publicising and furthering the campaign.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/essex-thameside-and-thameslink-s...
Ben Myring
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Permalink Reply by Malc B on
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Amazing news - thanks for all of your hard work on this, and for that of everyone else involved!
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Greetings Ben M - Arcady - and all others who followed this thread and chipped in their penn'orth to DafT on Thameslink. I have had quick flick through the document and comments on the many responses, but it gives little information on what services are the likely outcome from all this.
When a small group of us met at the Cafe next to Moka on their 'a bit windy' frontage a while ago, the outcome was Ben's very useful structure for a reply. I didn't use it but made most of the same points, but I also commented on the Uckfield - Lewes restoration, which I see as a rather crucial element of the Thameslink strategy. Without this route reopening there will be a hiatus between Haywards Heath and Brighton. But apart from the letters Har and y, it's a bit out of our patch, but I had a letter published in Rail magazine on this topic. It is very important. 'Nuff said.
Coming home, we need to put a clear strategy together, and get this adopted by Haringey Council, and since the DfT is talking of weekend services to Moorgate, work up a short paper to get local support. My experience promoting the Outer Circle 15 years ago, now the Overground, I restricted my missives to 4 sides of A4, and an even shorter summary. We must be realistic, and put the case for a very extensive life extension of the 313 trains, we will not get new ones, and look to a package of station improvements. Service improvements should be modelled on an Overground pattern, at least every 8 minutes at the peaks, etc., but with more frequent late evening services.
I cannot lead on this one as I am due to go into hospital for a fairly urgent heart op, which could put me out of action for 4 to 6 weeks, but I shall try to see what wifi is available or get a mobile deal with a dongle ..... that sounds almost risque ... but you know what I mean.
I'm going to ask for a hard copy, as respondents we are entitled to this, so we can have some exciting bedtime reading, or maybe not, and we need to see other responses. I am writing again to Lynne Featherstone for her response, and we need LBH's response too. This must be raised at a future LBH Transport Group meeting.
Over to others with HoL, and if you are genuinely interested and concerned, go and have a quick look at Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park stations, and the lack of any significant improvements at Hornsey and Harringay.
Zebedee is telling me 'Time for Bed', showing my age and love of intellectual trivia! RicP
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@Ric:
The evening & weekend service, and the minimum standards at Hornsey & Harringay, are built into the Invitation to Tender for the rail franchises. So they would seem to be a done deal. That’s not to say that Haringey shouldn’t welcome this.
The minimum service levels guaranteed by the Invitation to Tender remain at 6tph for H&H, but at weekends the current 3tph rises to 4tph. The evening service to Moorgate also seems to be 6tph, perhaps dropping to 5tph after 22:00, and 4tph at weekends.
I note also that Lynne Featherstone has wrung a separate guarantee from the DfT that H&H will be permanently manned, which is quite the achievement. A lot of money is being spent on Hornsey – it would be nice to see similar sums being spent at Harringay.
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This is excellent news Ben. If the current level of service is to be maintained or bettered, does that mean H&H will require additional platforms considering the two line branches are to be segregated?
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@Nicholas
That’s a good question. New platforms at H&H aren’t on Network Rail’s current agenda. I’m assured that service levels can be maintained, either by stopping Thameslink trains there, or by continuing to thread some Hertford Loop and Welwyn-Moorgate trains through the stations (in other words, the two lines might not be fully segregated after all). The number of peak-time trains on the Hertford Loop will increase, but the added trains will run fast though H&H as some do already. If you are really interested, I will have a lengthy article up on this subject on Monday at London Reconnections!
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