Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
News on Some Truly Radical and Imagintive thinking on the Sainsbury's Traffic Disaster
They caused it between them, Sainsbury's, the Arena and the bumbling Council. Sainsburys and the Arena are profiting. And this is the best they can come up with between the three of them?
This from Haringey Council's website:
Improving shopping congestion in Green Lanes
Wednesday 2 April 2008
A range of options to improve traffic flow around a shopping complex in Green Lanes were discussed at a meeting convened by Haringey Council on Monday 31 March.
The meeting was called to consider ways of addressing increased congestion around the junction of Williamson Road and Green Lanes, N4, by the Arena shopping development and Sainsbury's.
Representatives from the council and Wildmoor Properties - the owners of the Arena complex - and Sainsbury's agreed to look at a number of options to improve the traffic flow.
These include potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself. Other possible options include working with partners to introduce a lay-by at the southbound bus stop by the junction with Williamson Road. This would ease traffic flows as vehicles would no longer have to wait behind buses at the bus stop.
Representatives at the meeting also agreed to enter into discussions with London and Quadrant Housing Trust, which owns land at the rear of the site, over the possibility of introducing emergency access only to the site from Finsbury Park Avenue.
Cabinet Member for Environment and Conservation, Cllr Brian Haley, said:
"This was a useful meeting and I was very pleased with the positive response we received from Sainsbury's and Wildmoor Properties.
"There are no simple solutions to these problems. We need to work very closely together and with a range of other partners if we're going to tackle this congestion effectively.
"I look forward to meeting with both organisations again in May and I hope some positive progress will have been made on all sides."
No Brian. There are no simple solutions - except perhaps getting a proper job done during the planning application process . And we too hope for some postive progress, but we've learned not to hold our breaths.
This from Haringey Council's website:
Improving shopping congestion in Green Lanes
Wednesday 2 April 2008
A range of options to improve traffic flow around a shopping complex in Green Lanes were discussed at a meeting convened by Haringey Council on Monday 31 March.
The meeting was called to consider ways of addressing increased congestion around the junction of Williamson Road and Green Lanes, N4, by the Arena shopping development and Sainsbury's.
Representatives from the council and Wildmoor Properties - the owners of the Arena complex - and Sainsbury's agreed to look at a number of options to improve the traffic flow.
These include potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself. Other possible options include working with partners to introduce a lay-by at the southbound bus stop by the junction with Williamson Road. This would ease traffic flows as vehicles would no longer have to wait behind buses at the bus stop.
Representatives at the meeting also agreed to enter into discussions with London and Quadrant Housing Trust, which owns land at the rear of the site, over the possibility of introducing emergency access only to the site from Finsbury Park Avenue.
Cabinet Member for Environment and Conservation, Cllr Brian Haley, said:
"This was a useful meeting and I was very pleased with the positive response we received from Sainsbury's and Wildmoor Properties.
"There are no simple solutions to these problems. We need to work very closely together and with a range of other partners if we're going to tackle this congestion effectively.
"I look forward to meeting with both organisations again in May and I hope some positive progress will have been made on all sides."
No Brian. There are no simple solutions - except perhaps getting a proper job done during the planning application process . And we too hope for some postive progress, but we've learned not to hold our breaths.
Tags for Forum Posts: Sainsbury's Story, sainsbury's, tfl, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by robertmac on
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How about a big electronic motorway-style sign on the railway bridge and near Manor House and Turnpike Lane junctions that says "300 cars in Sainsbury's car park - currently taking 1.5 hours to exit - don't bother!"
Oh and demolish McDonald's to build a new Harringay Piccadilly line tube station linked to Harringay Green Lanes Overground.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Finsbury Park Avenue is not a private road. I have just checked with the council's Transportation dept. I think it was in another conversation/discussion that someone suggested it was.
Therefore it cannot be difficult to plan, design and implement an exit point out onto Finsbury Park Avenue from Sainsbury's car park. There's a small matter of purchasing a few meters of land that stands between the car park and that road. This is most definitely the mature and honest solution to the problem of serious congestion found to occur mainly on Fridays/Saturdays/Sundays/ Bank holidays.
This is what we should be pressing the council to do.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Matt, are you sure about this? I know that the Hermitage Road end is Haringey's and it has the normal parking restrictions to go with it. But after the bend, the parking restrictions are privately patrolled and private penalties are set which suggests very strongly that after the first 100 yards or so the road is indeed private.
To create an exit from Sainsbury's one would need to access the private part of the road.
I imagine that the Council could adopt the road, but then they'd have to pay for its upkeep.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Finsbury Park Ave, at least on Google Maps, looks like it was originally part of the Arena. So it's probably a new road and therefore almost definitely private. You can make your own rules on a private road...
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Permalink Reply by phippsofacto on
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Until a few weeks ago cars were exiting via Finsbury Park Avenue anyway. They were driving through a pedestrian gate and over the pavement to do it, but hey-ho. It didn't make any difference whatsoever to the congestion in the area.
All it meant was that Finsbury Park Avenue and Hermitage Road were no go zones, and made me feel very sorry for the people living there.
Ironically, if the new development containing our favourite supermarket goes ahead up in Hornsey, that might reduce the number of people visiting Sainsburys in Harringay, thereby transforming the Arena into the blissful idyl that it once was. ;)
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Yes, I agree. We should just force them to make sure they keep the recycling centre there.
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I'm as sure as a telephone conversation with a council employee. She did say 'that road is adopted'.
Obviously I was surprised so I asked her if she was absolutely sure and she said 'Yes'.
Another fact you may be interested in; the now ex-head of Highways for Haringey Council lives on that road. :)
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Permalink Reply by David T on
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I often walk to Sainsburys on Saturday afternoons and have seen the chaos - thankfully I can do without a car...
What I have seen is that the major problem is the right turns - into the Homebase/Argos parking areas & to a lesser extent out of the petrol station/McDs, One vehicle trying to turn into Homebase - especially one larger than a car - can clag up the whole area. Re-routing to eliminate the right turns is in my view the only thing which will improve matters. Also has anyone suggested to Sainsburys that sending a 40 ton artic in there on a Saturday afternoon - as I saw recently - is really not very clever?
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Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on
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I live off Hermitage Road. I was therefore pretty annoyed to be told last week by a Sainsbury's employee that an additional exit would be opened from the car park onto Finsbury Park Avenue. This would funnel cars onto Hermitage Road and block the only vehicle exit for hundreds of residences in the area. I therefore wrote to two Haringey councillors and today received the following helpful and speedy reply from Cllr Claire Kober:
Thanks for copying me into your email below to Cllr Haley and apologies for the delay in responding to you. I have been on holiday and only returned to the UK on Sunday evening so it’s taken a few days to catch up with my emails.
I am concerned about the current problems with vehicles exiting the arena shopping area and I am keen to see the issue resolved. That said, like you, I would be concerned were permission granted to allow traffic to exit the area via Finsbury Park Avenue. Having spoken to the council’s highways department and to Cllr Haley, I have been told that such permission has not been granted.
As I understand it, while there has been a discussion about the possibility of enabling emergency vehicles to access the site via Finsbury Park Avenue in emergency situations, there are no plans to open this up as a possibility for other vehicles. Further, as you may be aware, Finsbury Park Avenue is a private road – owned by London and Quadrant housing association – and so the council could not take a decision in any case.
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Permalink Reply by TTTH on
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Without reading all the posts here, doesn't the problem stem from traffic lights and green lanes traffic? Longer times before lights turn back to red out of Williamson Road, might help? Maybe a bit naive. Where are the traffic engineers when you need them ;o)
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UPDATE ON CONGESTION NIGHTMARE FROM MEETING LAST NIGHT
Update on coordinating traffic lights at junction Williamson Rd/Green Lanes and Endymion Rd/Green Lanes; a new control box coordinating the two sets of lights should be operational by June and it is hoped will improve flow of traffic and relieve congestion out of Arena Trading Estate & Sainsbury's.
Additionally, the bus stop outside Homebase (on Green Lanes) is part of the problem and a discussion is going on to look at moving it up further towards Manor House so that it sits on the other side of the traffic lights from where it is now. So a move of about 45m only.
There is still confusion as to whether Finsbury Park Avenue is a private rd or 'adopted' (public). Further enquires with the Highways dept should clear that one up!
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