Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Furniture store being advertised for Queen's Head despite planning conditions
I've just picked up a tweet from John McMullan with the following text and picture:
Ha ha! Queen's Head Harringay kept as a pub... and I laughed and laughed and laughed.
My understanding is that planning permission was granted with provisos that included:
the applicant retain the use of the ground floor of the building as a public house. A feasibility study would have to be conducted using a team approved by the council if the applicant wanted to, in the future, change the use of the ground floor
At the very least, it appears that the developers are acting in bad faith.
I've been on the phone to planning and was told that the decision has yet to be published with these provisos.
Perhaps our councillors might intercede on this if possible.
Tags supplement: More conversations on this topic in the Friends of the Queen's Head Group
Tags for Forum Posts: queen's head
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ErinS on
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The LPA has the power to serve a breach of condition notice (BCN) where there has been a breach of conditions attached to a planning permission - the effect of which ought to cease the non-compliant activities to secure compliance with the conditions. Lets hope they do this before its too late and the interior of the pub has been striped out.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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It has been gutted already. Breeze brick walls in place and they're putting up the lights now.
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The Wikipedia article makes me think I'm right. Specifically "The 1947 Act, in effect, nationalised the right to develop land. It requires all proposals, with a few exclusions, to secure planning permission from the local authority, with provision to appeal against refusal. It introduced a development charge to capture the planning gain which arises when permission to develop land is granted; this was abolished by the 1954 Town and Country Planning Act passed under subsequent Conservative government.[1]"
Labour brought this in after WWII to stop exactly the kind of shenanigans described in TRTP. It's OK to tell me you've not read this book, I suspect that many other Labour councillors in Haringey have not.
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John, my own local barber for the past 35 years ('Chris of London' - as much an artist as 'Claus of Innsbruck', IMO) spends most of his day gazing out the window on Green Lanes where dozens of double-fronted 'Hair & Beauty' etc salons (doubtless a front for something) have swamped his trade and robbed him of his livelihood - alas, my fast disappearing fleecy crop doesn't detain him long four times a year, or pay his overheads.
Ironically (well he's Greek and good at Socratic and other forms of irony), Chris has always thought that the multiplying hair&beauty salons were down to Shef.
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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So it's gone from horrible grotty sports pub that no one in their right mind wanted to go to, to a potentially really horrible Turkish furiture shop where no one in the right mind would want to shop. Presumably furniture makes less noise and cause less offence than drunk people, so this is a tiny improvement, is it not?
No one was ever going to buy that place and do it up as a nice pub.
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hi anette, the purpose of a pub is to serve the needs of the local community and anyone who went in there could tell that that was what was happening. while id love a nice middle class pub with a black board and jus' and posh ales and sunday broadsheets, the majority of the local people of woodgreen probably wouldnt, theyd rather a rather noisy sports pub with cheap lager and a bad carpet. good luck to 'em i say.
its also a little crass to suggest that the proposed property is a 'horrible Turkish furiture shop where no one in the right mind would want to shop'...well im sure turkish people would like to shop there. id love a habitat there but i doubt its going to happen this side of highbury corner.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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The purpose of a pub is to make profits for the owners/brewers. The Queen's Head didn't.
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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As indicated by others, I have already taken up the point that where an express condition is attached to a planning consent, the applicant cannot ignore that condition by citing a general rule which generally makes it lawful for landowners to do what he himself is proposing to do. The very essence of a condition is that it disapplies that general rule and makes it unlawful in a particular case to do that which would otherwise be lawful.
I hope to speak to a senior planning officer in the next couple of days and will then report back.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Councillor for Harringay Ward
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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already taken up the point
I must have missed the answer given to you by Planning David. Can you remind us please.
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The reason why no breach of condition notice has yet been issued is that there has not yet been a breach of condition.
The works which have been done up until now do not yet appear to have amounted to anything which involves making use of the planning permission. Unless and until that happens, the premises are subject only to the general law.
The general law permits the owner of a pub to convert it into a retail shop without obtaining planning permission. Therefore, no enforcement action can be taken until works are done in pursuance of the planning permission - namely converting the upper storeys into flats and building the authorised extension. It is then and only then that the condition to use the ground floor as a pub comes into its own.
Once the works that are authorised by the planning permission are carried out, it appears to me that the use of the ground floor as anything other than a pub will constitute a breach of condition and will attract a breach of condition notice. An interesting feature of breach of condition notices is that there seems to be no discretion on the part of the local authority as to whether to issue them or not. This is in contrast with the position which generally governs the issue of planning enforcement notices, where the local authority does not have to issue them if issuance appears to be inexpedient. The rationale is that any unauthorised change of use can constitute a breach of planning control, and not all such breaches are important enough to bother with. The breach of a condition which has been explicily imposed by officers or the planning committee is, however, another thing altogether.
So the bottom line about enforcing the condition which the planning sub-committee imposed is: not now, but as soon as the planning permission is acted upon.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Councillor for Harringay Ward
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