Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
JUST PLAIN ANGRY
When I was working in politics I was given the instruction NEVER, EVER to criticise the police. They are ALWAYS doing a fine job. They are ALWAYS marvellous ...etc, etc, etc.
Well I'm not in politics now and I can tell you that although there are undoubtedly a lot of really worthwhile and socially concerned people amongst their number, for whatever reasons—laziness, being ground down by the system, hamstrung by various interest groups or procedure, personal idiocy or simple timeserving boredom--the police are demonstrably NOT doing a fine job; they are NOT always marvellous and they have become so blasé about what they regard as 'petty' crime and so unwilling to put themselves into difficult situations when it is much easier to concentrate on relatively unthreatening victims instead (remember our discussion on this site about that poor chap who found himself surrounded by a squad when he left his car running), that it is hardly a surprise that they ducked out of going for the hoodies with bricks and allowed the shops along Lordship Lane to go up in flames while they concentrated on the administrative aftermath of a gunfight.
There is no such thing as 'petty' crime. All break-ins, shoplifting, garden robberies and bicycle thefts strike at the heart of our society and our social system and any cohesion we might pretend we have.
Neither our "the police are marvellous" politicians, nor our "just look how concerned we are, let's fill out an incident report" officers of the law seem to be aware of this and the most depressing thing is that once the fuss and bother has died down, they will all snap back to default position, leaving the good people of Haringey --and Manchester and Birmingham and wherever else-- to shift as best they can.
Lydia
Tags for Forum Posts: london troubles
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Louisa,
Thanks for letting us know what really happens.He should be allowed to go on holiday!
Matt
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Permalink Reply by Karin on
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Am with you all the way Louisa. I have two friends who are both police officers and they have been working long shifts to try to keep us all safe. One has had to cancel her holiday which she was supposed to be going on next week. She is just trying to get on with her job.
The Met And all other police forces aren't perfect and they will make mistakes but i don't think rants like yours Lydia do anyone any favours. One of my friends described catching the same burglar 4 times but the courts didn't give him a custodial sentence and he laughed at her as he left court. She has also been injured in the line of duty several times. One day her shift included dealing with the suicide of a teenager and his bereft father who found his son dead. Takes a special type of person to deal with these things.
That's my mini rant over
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Permalink Reply by Lydia R on
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Not too long ago I spent an entire 10 hour shift accompanying a police patrol. Does that tell you how ill-informed I am?
As I said, I know there are good people in the police but I also know that there are many situations where the police bully the bully-able while ignoring the more difficult cases. I saw it myself.
And while we are on the subject of bullying, why are you then launching straight into telling me that I am not a good person, just because I am saying something with which you disagree? Isn't personal insult the resort of someone who has a weak argument?
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I'm sorry but I think 10 hours with some police officers hardly qualifies you as an authority on how the police force works.
I don't think anyone is bullying you here. HOL is known as a place where debate can be fairly robust. I've been on the end of this myself recently and I'll take it on the chin.
If you don't like what people are saying then don't start this type of thread. Did you not think that some HOL members would have friends/family in the Met and that they might not agree with your views? How is someone like Louisa whose husband is going out there tonight supposed to react. I thought she was very measured in what she said.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Louisa - please tell him that a lot of people are very grateful to him and his colleagues.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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Here, here John D - I'm very grateful to the police at the moment and the sacrifices they are making to try and keep us safe. Louisa - I hope your husband gets some rest and sleep soon.
I'm sure as an institution (like many others) there are problems, for example the phone hacking issues, and I imagine it's a case of a few ruining it for the many. But in my personal opinion this is a discussion to be had at another time.
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Certainly it is the leadership that is causing many of these problems. I am sure that the police who were out there in Ferry Lane trying to restore order with guns going off were not the ones who made the decision to let the looters get on with it up the road.
On the other hand, ignoring the fact that an obvious failure of policing has been exposed, is not going to get us very far, either. Chorussing the mantra that our police are wonderful, hardworking and brave while Tottenham is burning is not going to solve any problems.
It is true that the police often face dangerous people in the course of their work and I admire them for it -- but we also have to remember that this same danger is faced by shopkeepers every day and they don't wear kevlar vests.
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Permalink Reply by Laura W on
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Agree with JulieB. I've been massively grateful to the police over the last few days (and I've never been gladder to see them about!). Don't think now is the time to be bashing them - the last few days have shown us how much we need them.
There are questions to be answered in the next few weeks about a lot of things of which I'm sure policing in general - and what we expect of it - will be one. But at the moment I am just thankful to have so many police about.
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Permalink Reply by Noots on
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"Not too long ago I spent an entire 10 hour shift accompanying a police patrol." - sorry, but that's laughable in terms of insight to the endless, grinding, day-after-day, relentlessly depressing experience of policing our major cities - the very definition of a thankless task.
From a command perspective, I'm sure the Met have made a fair few errors since Saturday - possibly major errors, but looking at the practical difficulties of policing a huge city of 7-8m people with incidents kicking-off all over the place, now really doesn't seem like the time to start laying into the police. Given constraints in terms of numbers and the fact that every arrest takes 2+ officers and a vehicle away from the frontline for the duration of processing at the nearest nick, the police have had to decide whether to try and limit destruction whilst securing the safety of fire crews or risk further inflaming situations by attacking protestors when hopelessly outnumbered (Mare Street, Clapham Junction and Walworth Road); I don't recall seeing anyone predict just how insane things would get on Saturday or Sunday. Do you think the officers on duty enjoyed watching the High Road burn whilst idiots bombarded them with bricks and bottles? Do you think they just stood there taking that out of cowardice?The police may - regrettably but understandably in my opinion - decide that some situations are better avoided - they're largely unarmed, they get little support from the public, and they're more accountable than ever when force is used. I have a friend who is a fire arms officer in the West Midlands - he is under unbelievable pressure on a daily basis, and for less money than I earn sitting on my arse all day doing a comfortable desk job.
I know that a fair few police officers do the service no credit - I've come across them at football up and down the country - but I also know that few, if any, professions have to deal with the worst that society has to offer on such a regular basis, and with so little gratitude from the public they selflessly serve. I wouldn't be a copper for all the money in the world, and neither would most people I know, so I'm extremely grateful that there are people out there who'll put up with all the crap on our behalf. I hope the Met and police officers from other forces know that most Londoners appreciate their efforts over the past few days.
Maybe you'd like to sign-up for another ten hour shift when it all kicks-off again, and you can stand there on the frontline with them pointing out their failings.
Noots' husband.
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Permalink Reply by Davo Ravo on
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was in a cafe in green lanes yday morning. A total swaggered out muppet asked me if there was any cctv round here, RIM device in hand. "I don't think there is, is there." I said I wasn't sure but there were plenty of local residents round here, who liked living here.
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There is definitely something not right in the state of policing when they are seemingly able to go in hard and aggressively (in large numbers) against students, anti-cuts protestors and other ordinary people on demonstrations; but basically abandon the streets when faced with actual law-breakers.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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John, the state of policing isn't perfect. But have you considered that, with the heavily policed demonstrations that you mention,the times and locations were known ahead of time? Where there is advance warning, planning can take place allowing the authorities to anticipate better.
With riots that erupt suddenly, it is surely more difficult for the police to respond, where different people are creating mayhem at different locations at much the same time, and none of it is planned far ahead (beyond BBM) and that the rioters will try to avoid notifying the police ahead of time.
Perhaps like the organisers of demonstrations, you might favour riot leaders copying in the police to their Blackberry messages.
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