Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Pictures of Tottenham last night from Crouch End
From Steven Kelly - see more here
Tags for Forum Posts: tottenham riot
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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Wait... .. this is LA ?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Tools, Michelle.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Alan, what are your thoughts as a councillor from the Tottenham Hale area re the riots of the last 24 hours?
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At the moment, Matt, both Zena and I are more at the feelings stage; rather than putting together coherent ideas. After a walk to see some of the damage earlier today, Zena had an initial go at writing some thoughts here.
Also, my immediate concern has been about practicalities. For example, there's clearly a need for a significant improvement in information available. I also worry about the most vulnerable people. E.g. I have no idea how well carers (professional and family) are able to get to see people. How far are agencies such as CAB able to advise people who've suffered property damage?
I appreciate that the council leadership and other key agencies are likely to be focussed on the immediate events, their aftermath and risk of repetition. Even so, I strongly feel - it's not yet a worked out set of ideas - that the council, health and other agencies can and should be inviting ideas and practical suggestions from as wide a range of residents as possible.
It's also more obvious than ever that the Leader/Cabinet/pondlife model is dysfunctional - not least when something like this happens. Though to be fair to Claire Kober, over the weekend she responded to my suggestions almost immediately and arranged a briefing for local ward councillors this (Sunday) afternoon. Unfortunately it was at one hour's notice so I wasn't able to get there.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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My feelings are sadness and anger at what has transpired.
When looters arrive in motor cars; co-ordinate attacks using mobile phones, Twitter and social networks; steal laptops and plasma screens, amongst other things, I question when some people blame poverty for these riots. I'd like to have a big TV screen – but I can't afford one.
In the 1930s, when there was real poverty during the depression and less or no social welfare, but there was also less crime of this kind.
Until I see pictures of looters in Tottenham stealing milk and bread from bakeries, I won't believe that poverty is a reason ... or even a possible excuse.
I imagine that only a relatively few of the arsonists and looters will be caught, but I wish them at least the full force of the law.
BTW Alan, if its any consolation, I don't see you as pond-life.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Clive, you're right.. but just one thought.. do you think that there's a such a thing as 'intellectual poverty' ?
Seems to me that there's plenty of that about..
After listening to the Police on R4 today - I have to say, the Met's spinning is not helpful..
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"Intellectual Poverty"? I might think there is such a thing if I knew what it was. Do you mean idiocy and stupidity, even evil? Yes, I recognize those things. The only intellectual poverty I see is in the rioters' apologists.
The comparison with the 1930s is relevant because then, there was genuine poverty. Perhaps you grew up in a wealthy family and were not scarred by the Great Depression, but maybe your parents or grandparents remember what times were like; or even people you knew. There was more respect then, despite real hardship for ordinary people.
When you say you're just trying to understand, do you recall PM John Major on crime when he suggested we might try to understand a little less and condemn a little more?
Do you think anyone should be let out of prison while still unable to read and write? Is that fair on society – or on the offenders?
I would like to see these offenders dealt with severely but the chances are most won't even be apprehended, let alone punished in any way that is meaningful. This weakness will only further feed a lack of respect for the law and other people's property. The people who have suffered from these crimes, such as through inevitable job losses, are by and large not the wealthy.
I suspect the victims of arson – some have lost their homes – and looting will not have much time to understand "peer pressure" and the need for "articles required for street credibility" (I think you mean trainers).
Since you say it seems there is plenty of Intellectual Poverty about, perhaps you could help define it for us, or at least for me Stephen?
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BTW, I honestly don't think the comparison with the 1930s is relevant..
The peer pressure and articles needed for street credibility these days, were just not there in the 1930s
I'm not making excuses - just trying to understand..
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