Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Parking Permits - Can Haringey make life more difficult?
What a lovely council we live in. Run so well, and with such incisive decision making.
Again, Haringey have either failed to send out a parking permit renewal form entirely, or just too late to get it back to them with only ten days left on my existing one, despite me chasing them for this three times over the past three weeks.
Year upon year this happens.
Several years back, two tickets and a clamp were my only “reminder” so I’m rather cautious about letting my permit lapse – every year following this I’ve been down to the “parking shop” or whatever it’s called, right by the Civic Centre in Wood Green.
So today I drove down, V5, Council Tax bill and cash in hand, only to find that the swine are now not open on a Saturday. Since when?!
With less than 10 days to go on the permit now that I have received the “reminder” form this means I really don’t have much option but to take a day off work, or to phone Haringey and give them such a balling that they agree to help. I will opt for the latter option first thing on Monday, but who the hell do these people think they are?
If I didn’t have a job, I probably wouldn’t have a car. If I could renew online, I would, and there wouldn’t be a problem. Indeed this would give a cost saving, because they could then close the parking shop almost entirely even in the week – who actually wants to go there anyway? It’s not like the staff there have ever been very helpful or even courteous even when you are only there to buy parking permits.
If I could renew in person on a Saturday like I could last year, then I’d be OK too, but I cannot do that either, so I’m pretty cross.
Who makes these stupid decisions; why close the parking shop for business on a Saturday without making any alternate provision for the apparent few that have jobs? Come on Haringey, are you complete idiots, or is this a plan to extract yet more money; force our permits to expire so that you can ticket, clamp and tow our vehicles?
I note that the vehicle pound IS open for business today, and that the wardens ARE on patrol. So, Haringey can facilitate the enforcement of lapsed permits, but cannot facilitate the renewal of permits on a weekend. Of course, it’s all stacked in favour of them making another quick buck from us.
If it's too expensive to adminster the scheme without causing this much inconvenience, I wish they'd just scrap it entirely - I can't see that parking permits help do much more than make money for Haringey anyway - certainly I see no advantage to them as a resident.
Not happy, and am going to start phoning people to moan loudly on Monday morning. They’d better come up with a better solution than me taking a day off work – it’s quite easy to calculate the cost of this and I’ll be only too happy to send a bill in for my lost earnings!
Again, Haringey have either failed to send out a parking permit renewal form entirely, or just too late to get it back to them with only ten days left on my existing one, despite me chasing them for this three times over the past three weeks.
Year upon year this happens.
Several years back, two tickets and a clamp were my only “reminder” so I’m rather cautious about letting my permit lapse – every year following this I’ve been down to the “parking shop” or whatever it’s called, right by the Civic Centre in Wood Green.
So today I drove down, V5, Council Tax bill and cash in hand, only to find that the swine are now not open on a Saturday. Since when?!
With less than 10 days to go on the permit now that I have received the “reminder” form this means I really don’t have much option but to take a day off work, or to phone Haringey and give them such a balling that they agree to help. I will opt for the latter option first thing on Monday, but who the hell do these people think they are?
If I didn’t have a job, I probably wouldn’t have a car. If I could renew online, I would, and there wouldn’t be a problem. Indeed this would give a cost saving, because they could then close the parking shop almost entirely even in the week – who actually wants to go there anyway? It’s not like the staff there have ever been very helpful or even courteous even when you are only there to buy parking permits.
If I could renew in person on a Saturday like I could last year, then I’d be OK too, but I cannot do that either, so I’m pretty cross.
Who makes these stupid decisions; why close the parking shop for business on a Saturday without making any alternate provision for the apparent few that have jobs? Come on Haringey, are you complete idiots, or is this a plan to extract yet more money; force our permits to expire so that you can ticket, clamp and tow our vehicles?
I note that the vehicle pound IS open for business today, and that the wardens ARE on patrol. So, Haringey can facilitate the enforcement of lapsed permits, but cannot facilitate the renewal of permits on a weekend. Of course, it’s all stacked in favour of them making another quick buck from us.
If it's too expensive to adminster the scheme without causing this much inconvenience, I wish they'd just scrap it entirely - I can't see that parking permits help do much more than make money for Haringey anyway - certainly I see no advantage to them as a resident.
Not happy, and am going to start phoning people to moan loudly on Monday morning. They’d better come up with a better solution than me taking a day off work – it’s quite easy to calculate the cost of this and I’ll be only too happy to send a bill in for my lost earnings!
Tags for Forum Posts: parking permits
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Clive, I wouldn't lump together an organisation's cultural features with its work systems.
The former I take to include its predominant values, beliefs and attitudes. In the past I've done participatory research with small organisations which included weeks spent with them in observation; and lots of interviews.
But I have little or no idea of the internal culture of the Parking Service. I know almost none of the staff and have only once been inside their offices.
My views on systems are influenced by writers like John Seddon who is principally interested in 'how the work works'.
Plainly there have been systemic problems in the Parking and Highways Services. To paraphrase Lady Bracknell: to paint the wrong parking lines in a couple of streets is a mistake; to paint hundreds of streets completely wrong was systemic carelessness.
Only a few months ago I discovered that Highways (not Parking) didn't even have a simple list of streets where signs and lines had been checked and corrected; and of those which had not. I think 'muddle' and 'incompetence' was a fair description.
To clarify, the 5 points I listed were JB - not AS. I took them from Joe Bailey's post at the top of this discussion. The credit belongs to him.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Bailey on
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Clive,
I completely agree with your summary, and shall be more than happy to email these points over to the aforementioned people. If you can ping me yoru email address, I will CC you in too.
joe@houseofbailey.com is where you can reach me if you prefer not to post your email address inline here.
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Adrian,
Thanks for your insight. I hadn't thought of being more organised ;-)
Don't know where you've been these past few years, but I can renew my road tax online, and a reminder comes out without fail. Have been able to do that for 3/4 years now at least. Very helpful, can even be done from bed. But as I say, reminder ALWAYS comes out in time for this and it can be done online without problem. Also, DVLA do give a little room for manoeuvre - they don't clamp you on the day your tax runs out you know, and as long as you've got a disc on order, you'll be absolutely fine even if the one you have on show is expired by a few days - the cops can and do check these things!!
Have you read the original post I made? I have been chasing HC for over three weeks for my renewal. So I fail to see how you believe that I need to get more organised!
Also insurance; mine just renews automagically. They send me a quote, and it either renews or I cancel, just like home insurance etc.. The only way it won't renew is if I kill payment to the insurers, or phone to cancel / ask for cheaper prices. In other words, I have to deliberately NOT renew my car insurance should I wish to be uninsured.
MOT, yes I do need to remember that, but I've cunningly timed it with one of the bi-annual services. A sign of cunning and organisational skills rolled into one.
I'm only asking for the reminders for my CPZ permit renewal to come out in a timely fashion, and for it to be easier to renew without having to go in person to do so. I do not see this as an unreasonable desire.
With everything you have mentioned, bar the MOT, I can renew and pay online from my bed if I so desire. MOT, yes, the car does need to go in, can't really have an inspection by post or send my baby to the mechanics care of Royal Mail now - it's not like I'm driving a G-Wiz ;-)
But why should I have to take a day off work to go in to pay when HC have failed to send out renewal notices despite being chased? Surely it's Haringey that need to brush up on their organisational skills, or have you missed the point?
Oh and parking fines; you can pay these over the phone and by card. But CPZ permits, you can only get in person (in working hours mon-fri), or by post, and the latter IF you happen to still have a cheque book. You cannot pay by post if using a payment card which is just HC making life difficult in my mind, given that cheques are seriously old fashioned and are not issued by most banks now unless you specifically ask for a wadge of paper in a book that you'll use just once a year for paying HC ;-)
Anyway, if you are happy with things as they are then fine, but I am not, and I don't see a lack of organisation on my side as part of the problem. To recap, I'd been chasing the buggers for three weeks just to send me the renewal forms before they actually did, so it's HC being tardy, not JB being disorganised!
And one final point. If you have been clamped, you HAVE to pay to get de-clamped. You cannot simply appeal or the clamp stays and your car gets towed. This is legalised theft if you ask me!
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While we're on the topic of Parking charges, HoL members might like to look at the Council "cabinet" papers for next week which contain proposals for price hikes.
It's report 11 within the 'Agenda Reports Pack'.
I'd also be interested to hear from HoL members living in other boroughs about any increases announced there.
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Permalink Reply by sparkle on
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I cannot believe that people are ringing the council for days on end in a panic for forms which can be easily downloaded from the council website. You need never wait again!
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/resident_parking_application_form.pdf
Why on earth did no one tell Joe or any of the others with this problem they could do this???
Hello ?Wouldn't the council staff know this? I presume the point of having the forms available online is that we can find them if they don't arrive on time and don't have to run ourselves ragged tracking down paperwork.
A few years ago I was fined when my resident's permit expired without me noticing due to not having received a reminder.(lucky not to be towed- my neighbour came and knocked on the door just as they were about to do the second ticket and call the truck)
I ended up paying the fine as I was not able to get the council to budge on the issue of not having a reminder sent- their reply was that they were not obliged to do so, but did it as a 'courtesy' and they would not accept responsibility for it not arriving. As a result I always now put a reminder in my calendar and download the form myself. Actually I usually download it, fill it in and then take it to the parking office- saves time filling it in there and I find it useful to be able to double check the absurdly restrictive list of acceptable proofs of address before I leave home.( but that's just me)
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Re: no reminder sent out a couple of years ago and receiving a ticket
Same thing happened to me (and many others). I also complained/appealed and got let off. Strange how inconsistent appeal results can be.
Camden allows on-line renewals. No visit to parking office required. Why isn't Haringey doing this?
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According to Barnet's website some of its parking permits can be paid online. There's also a facility for residents to print their own permit at home. And to renew permits online using a credit card. This carries a 1.8% extra charge. Though, even at, say, Haringey's soon-to-be-increased rate of £95 for a smallish family car, paying an extra charge £1.71 would compare favourably with the cost of a Pay-&-Display meter while you queue.
Matt, you ask why Haringey isn't doing this. Haringey's Annual Parking Report 2010/11 includes this paragraph on page 18."The major new development for the service in 2010/11 will be the upgrade of the IT system. This upgrade will allow a number of self service options for customers, including on line permit renewals and online access to core information relating to penalty charge notices."
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P.S. The reason I went on Barnet's website was to find out the cost of their CPZ parking permits and to see if there was any variation between CPZs. It's probably my inefficiency, but I couldn't find the right page(s). Can anyone help?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Thanks for this info Alan. Making payments online in this way makes huge sense.
My only note of caution is in connectioon with The major new development ... will be the upgrade of the IT system. Neither central nor local government has a good record with upgrading computers. Those with longer memories will know that LBH already as 'form' in this area with "Tech Refresh".
Upgrading the Parking Services IT system could be a bumpy ride ...
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Permalink Reply by JeremyS on
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WOOOAA! Hold on there.
What's this? Punch & Judy agreeing?? I think that deserves a peel of the Harringay Bells.
Admin?
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Let's not peal too soon, Jeremy. It's true that over the past few days, Dr Clive has been posting fair and careful comments, backed with sensible argument and links to published evidence. Long may this continue!
But who can predict if and when the cantankerous Mr Carter may reappear? In fact he may have arrived. In the past, his presence was often signalled by mention of: (1) Ally Pally; or (2) Haringey People magazine; (3) bottled water; (4) Oakfield Road bridge; and (5) Tech Refresh.
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Alan I can understand that you do not take the opportunity to leap to the defence of Tech Refresh. I don't think anyone would cite it as a precedent and an example of how well LBH handles IT upgrades.
If I were to say that Parking Services' major IT upgrade had disaster written all over it, I'm sure I would be accused of council-bashing and not even giving them a chance to botch it in the first place.
In all seriousness and in view of the staffing and expenditure cuts, might not this "major new development" better be delayed?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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It's on the back page of the application form.
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