Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Parking Permits - Can Haringey make life more difficult?
What a lovely council we live in. Run so well, and with such incisive decision making.
Again, Haringey have either failed to send out a parking permit renewal form entirely, or just too late to get it back to them with only ten days left on my existing one, despite me chasing them for this three times over the past three weeks.
Year upon year this happens.
Several years back, two tickets and a clamp were my only “reminder” so I’m rather cautious about letting my permit lapse – every year following this I’ve been down to the “parking shop” or whatever it’s called, right by the Civic Centre in Wood Green.
So today I drove down, V5, Council Tax bill and cash in hand, only to find that the swine are now not open on a Saturday. Since when?!
With less than 10 days to go on the permit now that I have received the “reminder” form this means I really don’t have much option but to take a day off work, or to phone Haringey and give them such a balling that they agree to help. I will opt for the latter option first thing on Monday, but who the hell do these people think they are?
If I didn’t have a job, I probably wouldn’t have a car. If I could renew online, I would, and there wouldn’t be a problem. Indeed this would give a cost saving, because they could then close the parking shop almost entirely even in the week – who actually wants to go there anyway? It’s not like the staff there have ever been very helpful or even courteous even when you are only there to buy parking permits.
If I could renew in person on a Saturday like I could last year, then I’d be OK too, but I cannot do that either, so I’m pretty cross.
Who makes these stupid decisions; why close the parking shop for business on a Saturday without making any alternate provision for the apparent few that have jobs? Come on Haringey, are you complete idiots, or is this a plan to extract yet more money; force our permits to expire so that you can ticket, clamp and tow our vehicles?
I note that the vehicle pound IS open for business today, and that the wardens ARE on patrol. So, Haringey can facilitate the enforcement of lapsed permits, but cannot facilitate the renewal of permits on a weekend. Of course, it’s all stacked in favour of them making another quick buck from us.
If it's too expensive to adminster the scheme without causing this much inconvenience, I wish they'd just scrap it entirely - I can't see that parking permits help do much more than make money for Haringey anyway - certainly I see no advantage to them as a resident.
Not happy, and am going to start phoning people to moan loudly on Monday morning. They’d better come up with a better solution than me taking a day off work – it’s quite easy to calculate the cost of this and I’ll be only too happy to send a bill in for my lost earnings!
Again, Haringey have either failed to send out a parking permit renewal form entirely, or just too late to get it back to them with only ten days left on my existing one, despite me chasing them for this three times over the past three weeks.
Year upon year this happens.
Several years back, two tickets and a clamp were my only “reminder” so I’m rather cautious about letting my permit lapse – every year following this I’ve been down to the “parking shop” or whatever it’s called, right by the Civic Centre in Wood Green.
So today I drove down, V5, Council Tax bill and cash in hand, only to find that the swine are now not open on a Saturday. Since when?!
With less than 10 days to go on the permit now that I have received the “reminder” form this means I really don’t have much option but to take a day off work, or to phone Haringey and give them such a balling that they agree to help. I will opt for the latter option first thing on Monday, but who the hell do these people think they are?
If I didn’t have a job, I probably wouldn’t have a car. If I could renew online, I would, and there wouldn’t be a problem. Indeed this would give a cost saving, because they could then close the parking shop almost entirely even in the week – who actually wants to go there anyway? It’s not like the staff there have ever been very helpful or even courteous even when you are only there to buy parking permits.
If I could renew in person on a Saturday like I could last year, then I’d be OK too, but I cannot do that either, so I’m pretty cross.
Who makes these stupid decisions; why close the parking shop for business on a Saturday without making any alternate provision for the apparent few that have jobs? Come on Haringey, are you complete idiots, or is this a plan to extract yet more money; force our permits to expire so that you can ticket, clamp and tow our vehicles?
I note that the vehicle pound IS open for business today, and that the wardens ARE on patrol. So, Haringey can facilitate the enforcement of lapsed permits, but cannot facilitate the renewal of permits on a weekend. Of course, it’s all stacked in favour of them making another quick buck from us.
If it's too expensive to adminster the scheme without causing this much inconvenience, I wish they'd just scrap it entirely - I can't see that parking permits help do much more than make money for Haringey anyway - certainly I see no advantage to them as a resident.
Not happy, and am going to start phoning people to moan loudly on Monday morning. They’d better come up with a better solution than me taking a day off work – it’s quite easy to calculate the cost of this and I’ll be only too happy to send a bill in for my lost earnings!
Tags for Forum Posts: parking permits
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Alan, a secret group of conspirators would be an explicit policy. What would you call the 'pay now and it will be only £60, try to appeal or delay and it will be double' policy? I can assure you that somewhere is written down explicitly what that is for. I can also assure you that because the council spend so little time, effort and money in clearing up obvious mistakes that there is an implicit policy too.
No wonder the good burghers of Muesli Hill are so frightened of CPZs.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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The unofficial policy of entrapment is a serious matter, but no more serous than incompetence, muddle and an inability to learn from mistakes.
The upshot is that LBH Parking Services is in a mess and needs a makeover.
Who will take responsibility for this?
I comment on these matters partly because Parking Services is going to come under more pressure to increaseprofitsthe annual surplus, as other revenue streams are closed off. I can see a lot more aggravation coming from this department and its important that their conduct be seen to be fair.
The Head of Parking is on salary scale SM2, which means that this officer's remuneration lies between £57,956 and £75,359 per annum, making this job approximately in the top 70 slots at LBH. Is this job function really so complex, or does the salary reflect the amount of cash the "Service" generates (a "surplus" in 2008/09 of £2,559,000).
I appreciate that councillors' influence can only go so far. But if they cannot hold incompetent staff to account, who can?
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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Five points might usefully be made.
1. Anyone who receives a parking notice in circumstances where an appeal would succeed (see the Notice for a list of the permissible grounds of appeal) should exercise the right of appeal.
2. Anyone who unfairly receives a parking notice but whose case is not appellable should consider involving a local councillor. Although we are limited in what we can do, we are nonetheless able to put the case to senior council officers for remission of a penalty, as a matter of discretion, in appropriate cases, and I am always happy to do this. We cannot tell these officials what to do, but we can ensure that the case is put.
3. I am beginning to hear accounts of people being caught out because they have not received the renewal reminders which they have been accustomed to receive. It would be helpful if anyone in this position could contact me, either via this site or at David.Schmitz@haringey.gov.uk . That way, if there is a widespread problem, I will be able to urge on the Council that it adopt a general policy of leniency for a limited period.
4. It is becoming plain that the procedures for issuing annual permits need to be looked at again, to see if they can be streamlined and made more convenient. Suggestions welcome.
5. The Saturday closing of the parking shop is not the doing of the present government. Haringey Council needed to make savings because it overspent by £10 million before the present government came to power.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Councillor for Haringey Ward
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Permalink Reply by Joe Bailey on
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David,
2 tickets and a clamp, 4 years ago, due to permit having expired without a renewal being sent. I paid one ticket + the clamp removal to free my vehicle from the clutches of On Time, Haringey’s contractor.
Sent an appeal for all three PCNs in one letter, and got three separate replies. The unpaid ticket was waived as they could "see that I was a genuine resident who had subsequently renewed my permit".
The appeal for the paid ticket and clamp were not granted because the council is not "obliged" to send out renewal reminders, even though there was an admitted problem with council systems.
This was at a time when parking tickets were £40 each, and a clamp was £120.
To me this read nothing short of “We’ve had £160 out of you for the mistake that we as a council have made, plus your permit renewal fee, so we’ll waive the other £40 as it might annoy you so much that you’d make a formal appeal about the whole lot”.
Twice since the renewal reminder has been so tardy that I've had to visit the parking shop. And on this third occasion of tardy renewal reminders, I went to the parking shop only to find it's now closed over a weekend (god damn it, no permit, AND I didn’t need to get out of bed so early either!).
Don't really care why it's closed, it just is, and that's a pain in the bum. Working people simply cannot be expected to take a day off work just because we are forced to abide by a system administered badly and totally inefficiently.
If you need to make savings as a borough, how about you close the payment shop / parking shop / whatever it's called, all day on a Wednesday for example, so that you can pay the double time to have it open for half of Saturday whilst making no net gains or losses. Surely some kind of arrangement like this would be of more help than hinderence to the majority of residents? But no, clearly better to make your payment service unavailable to the majority of your residents in order that you provide a more accessible service to all?
If it’s too much effort for the council to have their payment office open in hours where working people can pay whatever they need to in order to live in this borough without fighting fines and court bailiffs, then just stop charging us for things that the council are unable to take payment for without causing us poor residents stress and aggravation let alone loss of earnings to take time out just to pay for the privilege!
I have now spoken to Colin in Ms Cunningham’s office. Colin isn’t responsible for anything much it seems, but seemingly didn’t want me to moan too much to Ms Cunningham, so he got Margaret from Payments to call me to discuss how I might get my permit sometime this week. Margaret was quite helpful but isn’t in a position to do much about the renewals not coming out because that’s not her department…. Whose department is the whole shebang then? Ms Cunningham’s, that’s whose! The same Ms Cunningham whose office is staffed by people that don’t seem to be able to do a lot about parking problems, permit issue problems, or permit renewal problems, let alone any of the other parking woes discussed by others in this post!
So Ms Cunningham, if you read HoL postings, take note; I will be calling your office again on Friday if my permit wasn’t dropped through my letter box on Thursday by our friends at Royal Mail. I will also be calling the leader’s office, the CEO’s office, and North London News who may be interested to see how badly we as residents are treated by Haringey Council, time and time again.
I do hope for Ms Cunningham’s sake that that the permit renewal happens before wardens start ticketing me, or it will be her innards that I’m after, not those of poor Colin who simply works in her office, and not those of Margaret who works in the payment office!
I am so pleased that I’m not the only one who sees quite how shabbily our council is run ;-)
It is however a shame that we can't vote for officials such as the wonderful Ms Cunningham really, I'm sure her tenure would be eternal and unrivalled if we could ;-)
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Joe I reckon some of the things you've identified about the conduct of Parking Services are features shared with the less attractive aspects of Call Centres:
• Limited authority/discretion/powers of action ... (e.g. "I can't do that" or "its a different dept.")
• Staff provide first names only ... unprofessional: no one takes individual responsibility
These things can cause frustration and yet in both cases, the organisation sees this as part of their "service". The whole "service" needs a shake-up, but no one seems willing to grasp the nettle.
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I am beginning to feel very sorry for Ms Cunningham, and she's underpaid.
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John, how about her boss? Does your sympathy extend to the Director of Urban Environment (salary scale CB03: £124,238 to £141,797)? I think there are others in our Borough who may be even more deserving of your feelings of sorryness.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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@ David
'4. It is becoming plain that the procedures for issuing annual permits need to be looked at again, to see if they can be streamlined and made more convenient. Suggestions welcome.'
email reminders? For those who opt in to that system.
I'd be more likely to pick that up and put it on a calendar, or even do the online payment, than a letter that sits in the other part of my abode.
(Actually since getting busted for £80 a few years ago when LBH did not send their usual reminder, I put it on my calendar anyway.)
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Excellent idea, Pam. But can I suggest you email it directly to Cllr Nilgun Canver (the cabinet member with the remit for parking) and Ann Cunningham, Head of the Parking Service.
nilgun.canver@haringey.gov.uk
ann.cunningham@haringey.gov.uk
And let me add that while residents are entitled to criticise the Council and its services, Ms Cunningham really doesn't deserve the highly personal abuse she's getting on this thread. Plus, as a Council officer, she is not in a position to answer back. It would also be welcome if other people followed your example and linked criticism to suggestions for improvement.
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Alan we're talking about public money and public services here, not some revered national institution, much less an exclusive private club. The public is entitled to expect higher standards. It might be worth re-reading Mr Bailey's original complaint at the top this thread.
Until someone admits responsibility for dysfunctional Parking Services (I won't hold my breath), the public is left to guess who might be responsible.
On the whole, do you think councillors should represent the council to the residents or represent the residents to the council?
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Clive, I have no reverence for institutions, national or otherwise. Not even Stephen Fry.
Haringey residents are entitled to demand - not just expect - high standards. When it comes to the Parking and Highways Services, along with Cllr Martin Newton and former councillor Ray Dodds, I'm on the public record as making these demands and exposing failings. But, just as important, suggesting changes; and publicly recognising and welcoming improvements.
But I also believe in fairness and 'the Golden Rule'. Someone with a complaint about a named council officer should use the complaints channels (inside or outside the Council). Produce evidence and give the person an opportunity to rebut the complaint.
Who bears responsibility for things which go wrong? The public doesn’t need to guess. It's the same people who take credit when they go right. The “cabinet member” responsible is Cllr Nilgun Canver. She is an appointee of the Leader, Cllr Claire Kober. The Director of the Urban Environment Department is Mr Niall Bolger.
Re-reading Mr Bailey’s posting, it seems to raise these suggestions.
1. Haringey Parking Service send earlier reminders that permits soon need renewing.
2. Offer opening times to help residents who can’t get there during normal office hours.
3. Offer residents the option of renewing permits online.
4. Ensure all staff issuing permits are helpful and courteous.
5. Review CPZs and give residents the option of changing or removing them altogether if they no longer meet residents’ needs.
Perhaps Mr Bailey would email these suggestions to Cllr Kober, Cllr Canver and Mr Bolger.
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Alan would you accept that there are systemic problems with PS, rather than a few isolated incidents? Apart from the kind of thing complained about by Joe (not alone apparently) I mean to include unspoken understanding that sign-posting should facilitate entrapment. I think we both agree at a minimum, the sign-posting could stand some improvement.
When I say systemic problems, I am mindful of your own candid observations (above) about PS: muddle, incompetence and an inability to learn from mistakes. I respect your opinion and I don't think you're thinking of a single officer, but of a culture or systemic failure. At some point, one has to recognize a repeating pattern or syndrome and the situation won't be fixed by separate individual complaints, one per incident.
Your listing of five points above is utterly sensible: but who will make these things happen and when?
I have attached the increases to parking charges that are likely to be approved by next Tuesday's Cabinet meeting.
Perhaps the big increases will enable the AS-5 points to be addressed. However, the Chief Financial Officer comments that the increases will "address the base issues in the Parking account" (which is curious, because the most recent surplus* was £2.5m) "and contribute towards the savings the Council will be required to deliver in future years."
Unsurprisingly, there's no more mention of "ring fencing".
That's the level of "base issue" I'd like to have! - Attachments:
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Parking Charges Report.pdf, 93 KB
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