Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Green Lanes is the most ticketed street in England and Wales for illegal parking
In today's Sunday Times (New Section p 15) it says that last year Haringey grossed £564,000 from 12,302 penalty notices issued on our very own 1 1/2 mile stretch of Green Lanes, thus making us the most ticketed street in England and Wales for illegal parking (I'd copy the link but Mr Murdoch charges you to read his output online). I am particularly interested in this fact as I have just received a £50 fine for parking in a bay on Green Lanes under the sign with says "pay at machine till 5 pm on Saturday". The ticket was issued at 5.15 on Saturday. Once I've written to The Times, has anyone else had a ticket like this and can you advise me how to get it withdrawn?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 1g75j5ym1jwo2 on
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Apologies, it appears Alan is right!
If you contest the ticket with the council within 14 days and they knock you back, you can still pay the reduced amount, but yes if you have to go to the adjudicator and lose, you will have to pay the full amount of the penalty notice (not the 50% discount). Although in some cases the adjudicator can instruct the council to accept the reduced amount (depending on circumstances), this is not often.
See below, taken from the traffic and appeals website:
http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/TMAYourQuestions.htm#q5
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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.... if you have to go to the adjudicator and lose, you will have to pay the full amount of the penalty notice
Yes this changed a few years back as it never used to be the case. Designed by bureaucrats to lessen the number of appeals. Be sure of your case for appeal and all that. Never mind democracy eh.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Having apologised for joining in the general speculation about this item, I decided to ask for the facts. I realise this is far less fun for people who just want a 'pop' at the Council. But here goes:
● The 12,302 PCNs (Penalty Charge Notices) shown as issued for "Green Lanes" were for the entire section of the A105 between the Hackney and Enfield borough boundaries. In other words, not just the section between the Hackney boundary (at the New River bridge) and Turnpike Lane.
● These PCNs were issued for the period 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010
● The figure of £564,000 was the actual cash received by the Council from the PCNs.
● 6155 PCNs were issued because vehicles were parking on yellow lines.
● 1405 PCNs were for yellow box junction infringements.
● 2731 PCNs were for bus lane infringements.
● 25 out of the 12,302 PCNs were issued because vehicles were in parking bays and not displaying valid permits.
It's clear these figures give no support whatever to my public criticism about lack of clarity of signs and notices on parking meters. Plainly, this is not the key factor in the level of PCNs in Green Lanes.
Although these levels of PCNs show, in particular, a very large number of drivers who are parking on yellow lines; and ignoring bus lanes.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on
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Thanks Alan. I still think the signs are unclear as the discussion showed. I went and checked and realised I had missed a second sign so I payed the fine. However in my view all the info should be given clearly on a single sign to avoid confusion. Anything you can do in your councillor capacity?
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Anything I can do about this problem? Highly unlikely.
Overall there seem to be large parts of the Urban Environment Department with a no-can-do culture. This is a great pity for many go-ahead staff ─ including inside the Parking Service ─ who want to improve and indeed have made many helpful changes.
I will keep trying, of course. In the meantime you might consider teaching yourself Obfuscandian.
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just had a pcn in the post this morning for being photographed in the yellow box at green lanes junction with salisbury road (im heading up warham road crossing from salisbury road).
Ive no particular issue with pcns being issued for breaches like entering the box without being sure you can clear it on crossing the junction. That leads to congestion pure and simple.
My pcn, on the other hand, shows that the only bit of my car in the box are the back wheels - the remainder has left the box and the car is stationary - partly on warham and partly in green lanes, waiting for pedestrians who are crossing in front of me. I'll contest it, but wonder whether its even worth it... anyone have experience of contesting a pcn in similar circumstances? Is it 'rulez is rulez' or is there genuinely such a thing as discretion? Surely they dont want motorists to endanger / run over pedestrians in order to avoid a pcn? Do they??? I'll update on the outcome and we'll see if the decision making is as bonkers as it feels at the moment
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Dermot, I'm not an expert on what are called "moving traffic offences". But my understanding is that the offence is committed at the point when you enter the yellow junction box without the exit being clear. So the photo should show your car actually going into the box.
Most complaints I've been told about are when another driver nips ahead of someone - after they begin to enter the box - and so blocks their exit. This sounds similar to what you describe.
If I've understood correctly, your exit was clear; but you had to stop because pedestrians then blocked your exit. If the photo you were sent shows this happening, then as soon as possible - and certainly within 14 days - contact the Parking Service and point it out.
If you read Haringey's Code of Practice you'll see this is the informal representation stage. If that doesn't get the PCN cancelled then you'll need to consider whether or not to make a formal representation and possibly appeal.
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the exit was clear, thats right alan. As i say the photo shows just the back end of the car in the box. Strangely (for green lanes), the main road itself is clear in both directions, the only vehicle in shot is mine, stopped as i was about to enter warham rd. Anyway thanks for the additional info, I shall pursue it at its current stage and hope some sense prevails
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As you describe them, Dermot, the circumstances changed after you entered the yellow box with pedestrians crossing. But do contact the Parking Service as soon as possible to explain what happened. I'd also suggest asking for the name of the person you speak to and confirming your conversation with them in an email to the Parking Service - also without delay.
If things go down the formal route, the email "trail" will be helpful.
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Dermot, a P.S. on your query.
Someone pointed out to me that pedestrians crossing are not "stationary vehicles".
See the Ticketfighter website.
The same website advises drivers to look at the actual road markings and compare them to those legally permitted in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2002. One requirement in those regulations is that a yellow junction box should go right up to the kerb.
On Monday I was at the busstop nearby. So, remembering your query, I took a look at the Warham /Salisbury/Green Lanes yellow junction box. As you'll see, even say from Google Street View, it's plain that on the Warham Road side, they clearly do not.
Old faded markings show that they didn't on the Salisbury Road side either. But the lines were repainted and supposedly corrected. Although they still don't quite meet the kerb - because there are (unnecessary) double yellow lines there.
On the other hand, Haringey Highways Team wouldn't get it wrong twice, would they.
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