Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Sainsbury's Hornsey: friend or foe?
With the sale of the Council Depot to Sainsbury's agreed, a planning application will now be made.
I hope there will be a vigorous and well informed debate about this.
It's far from clear to me that Sainsbury's in Harringay has done anything for our neighbourhood except attract more traffic into the area.
So it's vital that there's been such little interest or local debate.
But, let's pass over my personal views spit-spot and have a look at what the experts have to say.
A quick trawl on the net offers the following:
So, it looks like you pays your money, you makes yer choice.
I guess what all this tells me is that there's plenty of thinking gone into the pros and cons of allowing new supermarkets to move in to an area. So, how was all this evidence, together with the experience gained in Harringay, used by the Council in making the decision to sell the Hornsey Depot land to Sainsbury's?
I hope there will be a vigorous and well informed debate about this.
It's far from clear to me that Sainsbury's in Harringay has done anything for our neighbourhood except attract more traffic into the area.
So it's vital that there's been such little interest or local debate.
But, let's pass over my personal views spit-spot and have a look at what the experts have to say.
A quick trawl on the net offers the following:
- There's a Friends of the Earth report from 2006 (pdf) which explains how, in their view, supermarkets are given planning permission because they're "difficult to refuse".
- There's a Demos report from earlier in the year, Civic Streets, which argues that Big supermarket chains have a key role to play in regenerating Britain's poorest communities. Report author Max Wind-Cowie said: 'Major supermarkets are not the enemy of the Big Society. They have a role to play in helping deprived communities to regenerate by reducing stigma, boosting community morale and by bringing low-cost, quality produce into the area. 'It's easy to be cynical about mainstream retail chains, but they can be the game-changer for transforming perceptions within and outside of run-down neighbourhoods.' Quite whether this argument applies to Hornsey, let alone whether it's correct, I'll leave to you to decide.
- And hot on the heels of that report there's a response from the New Economics Foundation, expressing the view that Supermarkets don't regenerate communities – they hoover money out.
- Retail & Regeneration in London (rtf), from the Mayor's office, looking at benefits of supermarkets to deprived areas.
- Then there's a thoughtful sounding piece (I haven't got access to it), From 'chains' to partnerships? Supermarkets and regeneration, which looks at alleged dis-benefits and possible benefits and offers the possibility for a hybrid solution in some areas — stores that are community owned but supermarket supplied and quality controlled.
So, it looks like you pays your money, you makes yer choice.
I guess what all this tells me is that there's plenty of thinking gone into the pros and cons of allowing new supermarkets to move in to an area. So, how was all this evidence, together with the experience gained in Harringay, used by the Council in making the decision to sell the Hornsey Depot land to Sainsbury's?
Tags for Forum Posts: Sainsbury's, hornsey depot-sainsbury's
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Given our experience of the record in this respect at Harringay, this bit should be a particular cause for concern:
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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See my earlier post on what happened when they built the Arena estate. A "traffic assessment" which appeared to conclude there would be not one single car more coming in to the area than there was already - hence no problem.
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I'm neither for nor against at this point.
As for traffic, I believe that most customers will come from beyond the Harringay/Hornsey area so that it will be a net traffic generator. It's difficult to calculate the effect on the Ladder. It depends on where the customers come from. Any travelling from Stroud Green, Finsbury Park and the east of the borough will generate traffic for us even though some of that might be to the benefit of Green Lanes. I don't think we can assume that people will use their nearest Sainsbury's. My guess is that the Hornsey one will be managed for a slightly different demographic profile.
As to local benefit, we could look to the Harringay example for evidence.
If what is sought is regeneration, for me it's of critical importance to understand the options and compare the benefits & drawbacks of those vis a vis the Sainsbury's led option.
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On selfish grounds, I agree - there may be fewer cars down this end of the Ladder, which would be great. On the other hand - Turnpike Lane, Hornsey High st and Wood Green are already busy traffic areas and probably do not need this added burden.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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What else would go on the site? More than just the one monolith surely?
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"Green Lanes in general" meaning what Will? Are you using the term adopted in the council sponsored rebranding of Harringay? Green Lanes is a street. It may relieve traffic from Green Lanes but may generate more traffic elsewhere in Harringay, e.g. Wightman Road.
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Traffic moving on Green Lanes, sure, but absolutely not at the cost of driving it on to residential streets.
For a good %ge of people that currently use Sainsbury's Harringay, (those to the south and east) a switch of allegiance to Sainsbury's Hornsey will mean their using the Ladder roads.
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Yes, Wightman is part of the Ladder. Ask OAE.
And, no, you wouldn't use the Ladder roads to get to Sainsbury's Harringay from east or south.
Re the rest - don't know. We just know that it was got spectacularly wrong around planning Harringay.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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The information so far seems to be pretty sketchy but I see no mention of car parking, either for the Sainsbury's or for the 200-odd new homes. I hope the planners will insist that Sainsbury provide off-street access for the supply trunkers, unlike Tesco where supplies are unloaded in the main street.
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