Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Sainsbury's Hornsey: friend or foe?
With the sale of the Council Depot to Sainsbury's agreed, a planning application will now be made.
I hope there will be a vigorous and well informed debate about this.
It's far from clear to me that Sainsbury's in Harringay has done anything for our neighbourhood except attract more traffic into the area.
So it's vital that there's been such little interest or local debate.
But, let's pass over my personal views spit-spot and have a look at what the experts have to say.
A quick trawl on the net offers the following:
So, it looks like you pays your money, you makes yer choice.
I guess what all this tells me is that there's plenty of thinking gone into the pros and cons of allowing new supermarkets to move in to an area. So, how was all this evidence, together with the experience gained in Harringay, used by the Council in making the decision to sell the Hornsey Depot land to Sainsbury's?
I hope there will be a vigorous and well informed debate about this.
It's far from clear to me that Sainsbury's in Harringay has done anything for our neighbourhood except attract more traffic into the area.
So it's vital that there's been such little interest or local debate.
But, let's pass over my personal views spit-spot and have a look at what the experts have to say.
A quick trawl on the net offers the following:
- There's a Friends of the Earth report from 2006 (pdf) which explains how, in their view, supermarkets are given planning permission because they're "difficult to refuse".
- There's a Demos report from earlier in the year, Civic Streets, which argues that Big supermarket chains have a key role to play in regenerating Britain's poorest communities. Report author Max Wind-Cowie said: 'Major supermarkets are not the enemy of the Big Society. They have a role to play in helping deprived communities to regenerate by reducing stigma, boosting community morale and by bringing low-cost, quality produce into the area. 'It's easy to be cynical about mainstream retail chains, but they can be the game-changer for transforming perceptions within and outside of run-down neighbourhoods.' Quite whether this argument applies to Hornsey, let alone whether it's correct, I'll leave to you to decide.
- And hot on the heels of that report there's a response from the New Economics Foundation, expressing the view that Supermarkets don't regenerate communities – they hoover money out.
- Retail & Regeneration in London (rtf), from the Mayor's office, looking at benefits of supermarkets to deprived areas.
- Then there's a thoughtful sounding piece (I haven't got access to it), From 'chains' to partnerships? Supermarkets and regeneration, which looks at alleged dis-benefits and possible benefits and offers the possibility for a hybrid solution in some areas — stores that are community owned but supermarket supplied and quality controlled.
So, it looks like you pays your money, you makes yer choice.
I guess what all this tells me is that there's plenty of thinking gone into the pros and cons of allowing new supermarkets to move in to an area. So, how was all this evidence, together with the experience gained in Harringay, used by the Council in making the decision to sell the Hornsey Depot land to Sainsbury's?
Tags for Forum Posts: Sainsbury's, hornsey depot-sainsbury's
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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down! with this sort of thing
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Permalink Reply by Lesley Ramm on
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Hugh, this (the link to planning application 1452) seems to be about the existing recycling centre. i have looked and can find NO application for Sainsbury's. HIPE has no new info. Is there an actual planning application now or from years ago? Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Sorry (and thanks) Lesley - got my knickers in a twist - sale agreed, planning application to be made. So still all the space in the world to discuss, debate and, one hopes, influence. Have amended the misleading sentence to my post.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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So, how was all this evidence, together with the experience gained in Harringay, used by the Council in making the decision to sell the Hornsey Depot land to Sainsbury's?
How did the council come to their decision; Sell asset = badly needed funds (+ reduce congestion at Sainsbury's Harringay).
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The former I'm sure.
As far as I'm aware there's not a mechanism for residents to be involved in land sale decisions, but we do have a avenue of influence through planning. I'm keen that before any planning permission is given that the pros and cons are openly considered and debated.
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Just looked at October Hgy People online and page 20 has article about this isue.
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Attached.
Worryingly (and unsurprisingly given the decision to sell), the article assumes that any consultation will be about HOW the supermarket is built, not WHETHER it should be built. I'd be interested to know whether the second question is still being considers as an option.
What other options were considered for the site?
Personally, whatever the outcome, I very much hope that the buildings shown in the picture together with others on the site can be incorporated into the plans. - Attachments:
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'A stretch of land which has LAID derelict for 15 years could finally be in line for regeneration' - Haringey People, October 2010.
Maybe they could also find space on the site for a new Haringey People sponsored Grammar Academy.
'A residential mix, with 50 per cent affordable housing'
Shouldn't Joe Goldberg insist that Sainsbury-sponsored Haringey Council choose a developer who will include an on-site LIDL for affordable shopping ?
*Adrian: your image of North Harringayites walking en masse for their weekly Sainsbury shop indicates your very optimistic mindset. Surely what's required is a W1 Bus, co-funded by Sainsbury, Morrison and Waitrose, to ply the route designed by John McMullan some time ago ?
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As this post on Derelict London shows our city is constantly evolving but, for a multitude of reasons derelict sites can be left standing untouched for decades. Indecision, consultation after consultation and changing administrations can leave parts of London in decay.
Regeneration can however produce dramatic results, breathing new life into a wider area, whether or not we agree with a particular proposal. The Olympics area is a classic modern example.
I would like to know if the Hornsey Baths building is being kept (?) But I doubt it.
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Yes, but the question here for me isn't regeneration or not, it's what kind of regeneration.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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For redundant facilities with this council, "regeneration" normally means only one thing: dealing with a property developer. Often this involves trying to flog off assets our predecessors paid for, for a one-off benefit.
On one occasion four years ago in a certain prominent place in Haringey (that cannot be named for legal reasons), "Regeneration" literally meant inserting a casino into charity premises.
Of course "regeneration" of redundant land can never mean creating a new public park or example, can it?
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