Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Consultation on sex establishment policy
This was emailed to all borough councillors for forwarding to residents:
We have until 15th December to comment (object or support) teh proposed policy. thought HoLers would want to be aware.
Dear Councillors, I write to advise that we are now underway with the consultation on the draft sex establishment policy.
In summary we are putting forward a nil by ward policy across the borough. Feel free to pass the document on as you would like.
I am happy to discuss any queries.
Regards,
Daliah Barrett
Lead Licensing Officer
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/business/licensing_regulations/lic...
We have until 15th December to comment (object or support) teh proposed policy. thought HoLers would want to be aware.
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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To: Delilah - Lead Licentiousness Officer:
I notice the Doc's Intro describes the Council's 'nil per ward' policy as 'Clear and ambiguous'. Yes.
Apparently such a 'sex establishment' is fine so long as it is more than 400 metres from residential property 'with line of sight', or more than 200 metres from residential property 'without line of sight'. I suggest that 'nil per ward' should not apply to Harringay. So can we have one, please, on the island in Finsbury Park Pond, and a second on the FP tarmacked area currently wasted on Youth Basketball ?
Yours, etc . . . .
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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we are putting forward a nil by ward policy
I'm afraid the licensing officer is persisting with her use of "nil" in licensing policy, in spite of its reduced meaning and in spite of the fact other people have pointed this out to her, including me. She used this odd term at the time of the consultation on future gambling licence policy (with a "Nil" casino resolution). Despite explanation, the officer was unable to understand how this could be confusing or ambiguous.
Unfortunately, it gave the impression of either (a) using jargon to try to impress (b) poor command of English or, more worrying (c) a deliberate attempt to obfuscate. In a licensing department engaged in enforcing and interpreting the law, one might have expected high standards of plain clear English.
– Nil-by-Mouth
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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Yes I agree - what does "nil" mean, if it doesn't mean none at all? I can't make sense of this document at all.
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I think it could be significant that the officer in question has chosen to repeat this odd use. The officer argued that:
I have always understood nil to mean none!
...and was unable to understand the point that I tried to make to her.
Amongst other attempts, I said:
Meaning of "Nil": This is not normally used to negate or to deny something. "Nil" is normally used in the context of scoring something (e.g. nil points) or the absence of something – rather than forbidding something. Do you see the difference and why it conveys a nuanced meaning?
The reason why I thought you might have intended some different meaning is because you are a local government licensing officer and familiar with the importance of context and definition. You deal with licensing law and are presumably familiar with the need to use words carefully. Entire court cases can turn on the precise meaning of words. Given that several gambling decisions have gone to Appeal, I would have thought you would be sensitive to a need for exactness in the description of gambling policy generally. I thought your explanation was surprisingly casual.
Am I being pedantic or is the council officer lacking an appreciation of the subtleties of English?
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Report her to the Plain English campaign.
Also, the Local Government Association every year urges council staff not to use jargon and to be clear in their use of language, as they are spending public money. It publishes a list of banned words - jargon, rather than ordinary words used wrongly but the point is the same.
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The most obvious interpretation of a "Nil Casino Resolution" would be that [the council] will not make adopt or have, a casino resolution, i.e, there is an absence of a casino resolution.
To their credit, some councils in London have adopted "No Casino" resolutions, meaning that they will not countenance any casino in their Borough. But as far as I'm aware, no council in London other than Haringey has used the confusing phrase "Nil casino resolution".
Since the departure of a certain pro-casino councillor, the gambling lobby in the council have reduced, but I wonder if the ambiguous wording is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate? The officer argued, perplexingly, that as there were no casinos in Haringey, there was no need for a resolution (?!) as nearby Boroughs have adopted. It gives the appearance of wanting to leave options open for the future.
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If anything, a "nil by ward policy" is more obscure than a "nil casino resolution" ...
– nil by mouth
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Permalink Reply by Omotn on
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The column in which the word "nil" appears is headed "appropriate number". "nil" is certainly not a number, "0 (zero)" would seem to be the appropriate entry in this table. I will email this officer to explain this. I hope many others will as well.
It worries me that "clear and ambiguous" might not be an error.
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Who's counting?
– Nil by mouth
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