Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The changing pattern of betting shops in Harringay since the gambling act
In my post a couple of weeks ago, I mapped betting shops in Haringey.
Since then Daliah Barrett in Haringey Licensing team has been very helpful and has helped me to build a before and after the gambling act picture.
Perhaps not such a big leap in premises as we'd think here in Harringay. But it seems that we might have good reason. In 2006, Harringay hosted 10% of the borough's betting establishments. In the ensuing four years, we've seen a 66% growth in the number of Harringay's gambling establishments. Despite having had only a tenth of the borough's betting shops, we've been the beneficiaries of over a third of the growth of gambling establishments borough-wide.
We can now boast that we have 14% of the borough's betting establishments. (That's an increase from 6 to 10).
Daliah's information has enabled me to correct the total of gambling establishments borough-wide number to 79. Corrected map here.
Updated list attached.
Since then Daliah Barrett in Haringey Licensing team has been very helpful and has helped me to build a before and after the gambling act picture.
Perhaps not such a big leap in premises as we'd think here in Harringay. But it seems that we might have good reason. In 2006, Harringay hosted 10% of the borough's betting establishments. In the ensuing four years, we've seen a 66% growth in the number of Harringay's gambling establishments. Despite having had only a tenth of the borough's betting shops, we've been the beneficiaries of over a third of the growth of gambling establishments borough-wide.
We can now boast that we have 14% of the borough's betting establishments. (That's an increase from 6 to 10).
Daliah's information has enabled me to correct the total of gambling establishments borough-wide number to 79. Corrected map here.
Updated list attached.
Tags for Forum Posts: betting shops, gambling, green lanes, mapping
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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When I saw David Lammy last Saturday he made some interesting comments about the number of betting shops.
The gambling industry maintains that the number of betting shops has not increased overall, this, in an effect to deny that there is proliferation. Mr Lammy suggested that if the overall number is little changed, it was because of a pattern of re-distribution of premises.
Betting shops in more affluent areas were closing due to locals going online (Betfair, etc. which arguable offer a better bet for gamblers) whereas people without online access or knowledge remained dependent on access to physical premises. Thus, proliferation (actually clustering and saturation) in poorer areas may be being masked by reductions in premises in wealthier areas where profits have slimmed.
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Only reflecting what Mr Lammy said Hugh. I believe the betting "industry" has claimed that the overall numbers of shops has remained roughly constant. I don't know if they are (a) telling the truth (b) what the extent of the claim is (Haringey? London? nation-wide?).
As far as Green Lanes is concerned, we have now achieved saturation betting, certainly in the vicinity of the post office. And all of them are sucking cash out of the area.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Of course and I'm only reflecting the reality of the situation in Haringey.
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Permalink Reply by PeterPiper on
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Strictly speaking, we have 9 betting shops, and one adult gaming centre on this patch of Green Lanes. The list would be more comprehensive if the two types of establishment were seperated, despite them both being governed by the 2005 Gambling Act.
Then of course there should be a sub category for all the establishments that are licensed for the sale of lottery tickets and scratch cards etc., etc.
There seem to be very few establishments to the west of the LNER railway, as a projcted in your recent mapping, commonly regarded as the affluent part of Haringey.
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As I understand it there's little difference between the 9 and the 1, Peter, since, as you know, they all owe their existence to betting machines (FOBTs) without which they'd all close down.
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Yes, but Agora does not have any FOBTs does it? It's just slot machines and a bit of an eyesore. BTW what has happened to them since they went into administration?
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I'm pretty sure it has the machines. It's how they make their money. I may be wrong but I thought it's why some Agora split premises in two so they can double the number of machines they have.
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Well Hugh, if you're so sure that Agora, 48 Grand Parade, has FOBTs on it's premises you should let either your friend Daliah Barratt, or the head of enforcement know, as they would be in breach of their license.
FOBTs come under the Gaming Machine category of B2. They are not permitted in Adult Gaming Centres, but a maximum of 4 are allowed in betting shops.
AGCs and bingo premises are allowed a maximum of 4 machines in category B3 or B4, and any number of C or D machines, but no B2s!
A full break down and download is here
For more information about FOBTs
machine_category.pdf
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Thanks for that additional information Peter. Your detailed knowledge is most welcome.
I'd based my understanding on information from the LCSP as part of their energetic campaign opposing Agora. They referred Agora's machines as "the most addictive and profitable gaming machines". I hadn't realised they were only one type of the most addictive and profitable gaming machines. So your additional information is useful. However, I certainly never got the idea from the LCSP that they regarded Agora's business as "just slot machines and a bit of an eyesore".
Any road up, useful as your information is, I'm not sure it changes the point I'm trying to make in this discussion. There are nine betting shops/premises/call them what you will.
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Apart from the erroneous inclusion of AGCs (Agora, Quicksilver, The Gold Shop & Mecca Bingo) in the table of "Growth in Harringay Betting Shops 2006-2010", a note should be made of the betting shop listed as Alexandra Palace, Panorama, Alexandra Palace Way.
This is of course the occasional licence granted by Haringey Council to Alexandra Palace which is administered by Haringey Council, solely for the duration of the Ladbrokes World Darts Championships, and is now proposed to be situated in the Great Hall during the competition, and no longer in the Panorama room.
It is not open on a daily basis like say the Betfred at 531 Green Lanes etc. etc.
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Thanks again for your helpful comments Peter.
I'm assuming you use the term "erroneous information" since you're not comfortable with my use of the generic term betting shops? All the premises are licensed and all are used primarily (solely?) for betting. So, whilst they're not all bookmakers, I thought betting shops was a good term. If your detailed knowledge suggests there's a better generic term, of course I'd be delighted to take that on board.
I'm assuming your helpful comment on the Ally Pally premises is intended to point up that it's missed off (but please correct me if I'm wrong). My apologies if it's not clear, but it's there on the list. If the map hasn't picked it up, that's probably because the entry for it on the list doesn't have a post code.
The information on the list comes from Daliah Barrett in Haringey's Licensing team who was kind enough to put it together for me. So I'm confident that it's correct, and very grateful for Daliah's kind help. I can't say that I share your view that the information needs to be "more comprehensive". However, Peter, do please feel free to add your own version of the map/list/data. I'm sure people will value a version based on a more detailed set of information.
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