Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Is our new 20mph zone working?
Haringey Council have just spent £100,000 on the new traffic calming scheme for the Harringay Ladder. I'm keen both as a resident and as a ratepayer to be satisfied that the new scheme is working as well as possible.
Ideally this could be judged by measuring levels of reduction in traffic and in traffic speed. Sadly, however, Haringey Council set no targets for the scheme, so we'll have to develop our own criteria.
Perhaps for speed we could simply say the success criterion would be that traffic is adhering to the 20mph limit. As for levels of traffic, I can only think of, does it feel like there's less traffic. Unsatisfactory, I know, but in the absence of proper data collected by the Council, it's about all we got.
I came to thinking about this a couple of weeks ago when I was being beeped by cars behind me on Wightman Road because I was driving at 20mph.
"It is 20 now..........isn't it?", I wondered. But I wasn't sure. And I'm not surprised I wasn't sure. There's not a lot of signposting. There's one roundel sign on Wightman just before Sydney Road together with the limit painted on the road at the same point. Then nothing till just before Hewitt when once again the 20 mph limit is painted on the road.
The red faced fuming motorist behind me could be forgiven for not being aware that he was in a 20mph zone.
Something similar happened today on my way home. So I found myself wondering what's best practice signposting in 20mph zones.
Here's what I found. Apparently there are two legally defined ways to introduce a 20mph limit. One is through the creation of a 20mph zone; the other is by introducing a simple 20 mph limit.
20 mph zones
The purpose of 20 mph zones is to "create conditions where drivers naturally drive at 20 mph because of the general nature of the location, or as a result of traffic calming measures".
Department for Transport Guidance says:
According to the Traffic Signs regulations and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD) an area is legally a 20mph zone when 20mph zone signs are used. This comes with certain legal obligations. In particular Direction 16 of the TSRGD stipulates that no point within the zone must be further than 50 metres from a traffic calming feature (unless in a cul-de-sac less than 80 meters long). Direction 16 also gives full details of what is a traffic calming feature.
The zone sign at the zone entrances is only required to be erected on one side of the entry road where the road is less than 5 metres wide. However, it is recommended that even in these situations signs should be placed on both sides of the road. This helps to accentuate the gateway effect and the feeling for the driver of entering an area which is "different".
Apparently in 20mph zones no other indication of the speed limit is required other than at EVERY exit and entry point. I presume this is because the traffic calming measures should mean there is no need.
20mph limits
A 20mph speed limit can be introduced using standard speed limit signs without the word Zone. Direction 16 of the TSRGD does not apply and traffic calming features are not necessary. However, 20mph limits are really intended to be used only on roads where the traffic speed is already below 24 mph and where physical enforcing measures are not therefore required. However, if a 20 limit is ordered the Road Traffic Act requires 20 mph repeater signs to enable the speed limit to be enforced.
So a few questions for me:
1. Does our area have "an urban safety strategy... involving measures to discourage through traffic from using the proposed zone"?
2.Does our 20 mph zone "create conditions where drivers naturally drive at 20 mph because of the general nature of the location, or as a result of traffic calming measures."
3. Is it legally set up, that is a) entry & exit signs b) traffic calming every 50 metres.
4. Following DfT best practice recommendations, are our zone signs placed on both sides of the road to create a gateway effect?
4. Is it being effective at keeping speeds to 20 mph.
My view is that there's something amiss with the signposting. I'm not sure if we have them at every entrance and exit, but even if we do, I think we need repeater signs to drive home the point. In Camden they've experimented successfully with speed activated flashing signs. OK, expensive, so perhaps just some more repeater roundels.
I'd also like to see some enforcement which I think is, or is about to become a Harringay Policing priority.
So, I'd welcome views from other people. But ultimately, I'd like to agree what we think is a sensible course of action. It may be that people feel that no action is required.
Ideally this could be judged by measuring levels of reduction in traffic and in traffic speed. Sadly, however, Haringey Council set no targets for the scheme, so we'll have to develop our own criteria.
Perhaps for speed we could simply say the success criterion would be that traffic is adhering to the 20mph limit. As for levels of traffic, I can only think of, does it feel like there's less traffic. Unsatisfactory, I know, but in the absence of proper data collected by the Council, it's about all we got.
I came to thinking about this a couple of weeks ago when I was being beeped by cars behind me on Wightman Road because I was driving at 20mph.
"It is 20 now..........isn't it?", I wondered. But I wasn't sure. And I'm not surprised I wasn't sure. There's not a lot of signposting. There's one roundel sign on Wightman just before Sydney Road together with the limit painted on the road at the same point. Then nothing till just before Hewitt when once again the 20 mph limit is painted on the road.
The red faced fuming motorist behind me could be forgiven for not being aware that he was in a 20mph zone.
Something similar happened today on my way home. So I found myself wondering what's best practice signposting in 20mph zones.
Here's what I found. Apparently there are two legally defined ways to introduce a 20mph limit. One is through the creation of a 20mph zone; the other is by introducing a simple 20 mph limit.
20 mph zones
The purpose of 20 mph zones is to "create conditions where drivers naturally drive at 20 mph because of the general nature of the location, or as a result of traffic calming measures".
Department for Transport Guidance says:
20mph zones are most appropriate in areas where an urban safety strategy has been developed, involving measures to discourage through traffic from using the proposed zone. the zone itself will normally be residential in character, although other areas such as shopping streets may also be appropriate. The road network within the zone should generally consist of access roads, but the inclusion of some local distributor roads may be acceptable. In order that zones do not become too large, no road within the zone may be more than 1km from the boundary of the zone.
According to the Traffic Signs regulations and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD) an area is legally a 20mph zone when 20mph zone signs are used. This comes with certain legal obligations. In particular Direction 16 of the TSRGD stipulates that no point within the zone must be further than 50 metres from a traffic calming feature (unless in a cul-de-sac less than 80 meters long). Direction 16 also gives full details of what is a traffic calming feature.
The zone sign at the zone entrances is only required to be erected on one side of the entry road where the road is less than 5 metres wide. However, it is recommended that even in these situations signs should be placed on both sides of the road. This helps to accentuate the gateway effect and the feeling for the driver of entering an area which is "different".
Apparently in 20mph zones no other indication of the speed limit is required other than at EVERY exit and entry point. I presume this is because the traffic calming measures should mean there is no need.
20mph limits
A 20mph speed limit can be introduced using standard speed limit signs without the word Zone. Direction 16 of the TSRGD does not apply and traffic calming features are not necessary. However, 20mph limits are really intended to be used only on roads where the traffic speed is already below 24 mph and where physical enforcing measures are not therefore required. However, if a 20 limit is ordered the Road Traffic Act requires 20 mph repeater signs to enable the speed limit to be enforced.
So a few questions for me:
1. Does our area have "an urban safety strategy... involving measures to discourage through traffic from using the proposed zone"?
2.Does our 20 mph zone "create conditions where drivers naturally drive at 20 mph because of the general nature of the location, or as a result of traffic calming measures."
3. Is it legally set up, that is a) entry & exit signs b) traffic calming every 50 metres.
4. Following DfT best practice recommendations, are our zone signs placed on both sides of the road to create a gateway effect?
4. Is it being effective at keeping speeds to 20 mph.
My view is that there's something amiss with the signposting. I'm not sure if we have them at every entrance and exit, but even if we do, I think we need repeater signs to drive home the point. In Camden they've experimented successfully with speed activated flashing signs. OK, expensive, so perhaps just some more repeater roundels.
I'd also like to see some enforcement which I think is, or is about to become a Harringay Policing priority.
So, I'd welcome views from other people. But ultimately, I'd like to agree what we think is a sensible course of action. It may be that people feel that no action is required.
Tags for Forum Posts: 20 mph, Wightman Road, Wightman traffic calming, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by hob on
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I doubt they will feed into the city. I think they expect 5 loads a day per truck. The big problem is there is usually a bonus for anything achieved over this.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I see London Concrete trucks in the city all the time.
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They are probably from Battersea and Bow. If they have a plant breakdown then they will take it from further afield. If they take it from a long distance and get stuck in traffic the concrete will go off and replacing the drum is very expensive.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Jono, I take it the speed gun training is complete. Do you feel you are now in a position to enforce the speed limit?
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Your are driving as what is known a 'pace car'. The idea is from Australia and you can formalise it with a pledge and sticker etc. with a number of drivers in the community.
http://www.lesstraffic.com/Programs/Pace%20Car/Pace%20Car.htm
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Thanks for this SPM. I have to confess to bouts of sadgitness, driving strictly at the speed limit on the ladder. I pondered just such a scheme but have felt too ashamed to post it. So I'm coming out as Ladder Pacecarman. Now all we need is Birdy to design some HoL Pacecar stickers fro our cars, a bit of a campaign and we're awa'. (Actually, I'm trying to get away with not sounding too serious about this, but I have to confess that maybe I am serious. We'd need a good level of sign-up and involvement though.)
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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This sounds a great idea. I am a reformed speeder, having received two speeding tickets within two weeks several years ago (both just for going slightly over the limit). Sometimes you do get hassled but you just have to stick to you guns - I always think I am saving other people from getting tickets.
But I agree the limit has to be clearly marked - I was not aware that Wightman was 20 mph, but now I am.
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Permalink Reply by aidan on
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I was pondering this just the other day as I cycled down Wightman. A few cars were quite aggressive -- I think perhaps some people are used to treating that road as a free run. Much of Wightman doesn't provide safe opportunities for cars to overtake bicycles, because of the central islands. (Something I always let cars do when it's safe to.) It's tedious to have a car cut you up by overtaking you just ahead of a traffic island, only to have to slow down behind them thirty metres down the road when they've reached a speedbump!
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Permalink Reply by TTTH on
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As I type, they are removing an inch (or more) thick layer off Alroy Road and I am unsure whether the hump is going too. What is going on! Wish we were informed, nothing at all through the letterbox. I take it there is no community consultation division at Haringey?
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Permalink Reply by WightmanPaul on
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Prior to the resurfacing which occured earlier in the year between Burgoyne and Mattison, we had a letter through the door informing us of the time of works and asking for cooperation with parked vehicles. If this has not been done it's very poor by the Council. Davis Schmitz posting seems to imply the whole thing's been badly organised. I'm afraid that is inline with the implementation of the 20 mph zone extension which is still not complete - no vehicle activated signs up yet. Reading the comments of road users who have been harassed by those of their peers who have not been to Specsavers or who have chosen to adopt the 'it doesn't apply to me' school of motoring, adds confirmation to my observation that large numbers of vehicles are ignoring the signs and that the physical means may not be having sufficient effect to reduce speed by the desired amount for the desired volume. The 7.5 ton restrictions are patently being ignored wholesale.
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Quality of the road looks really bad today. They seemed to have tarmacked over some of the Victorian(?) "bricked" gullies as well as a really messy jobs around the drain grills.
Or am I being harsh? But then when you put up a sign on the road saying "works 8am to 5pm 12/08/10" and it turns out to be "works 9pm - all night long, 12 - 13/08/10" I think I deserve to be ;o)
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Permalink Reply by JeremyS on
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Tell me, it IS just a coincidence that this work restarted again just five days after Harringay Online started this thread. It is, isn't it.
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