Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Some Ladder residents claim St Ann's traffic scheme brings more traffic to Ladder - Do you agree? Have your say
The St Ann's Low Traffic neighbourhood started on 4 September 2023. The traffic order that put it in place lasts only for 18 months. The Council is therefore seeking resident views before making the scheme permanent.
Although personally I haven't experienced it, at a residents meeting (Ladder Community Safety Partnership) meeting last night, residents from roads including Fairfax and Beresford, expressed concern that the LTN had added to their traffic woes.
A consultation of the future of the scheme id now running until 20th September.
To add your voice for or against, click here.
Jim Leedham of the Harringay Ladder Healthy Streets group provided the following comparative traffic data which he tells me is direct from the Haringey Council website.
As of January 20232, just over a year after the LTN was introduced and getting on for two years ago from today, the data doesn't suggest that at that point Fairfax had seen a slight uptick and Beresford a slight uptick. Given the additional traffic on Green Lanes I wonder if those changes correspond, i.e. that northbound traffic was travelling further north to avoid queues on Green Lanes. Jim suggested the possibility that with the higher traffic levels on Green Lanes, queues on the rung roads may have worsened even if not absolute levels. This would certainly be felt by people living on those roads.
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Jim Leedham of the Harringay Ladder Healthy Streets group provided the following comparative traffic data which he tells me is direct from the Haringey Council website..... (The remainder of this response has been moved to the main post at Jim's request).
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Stillman on
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thanks for the data. i wonder how much change there's been since eighteen or so months ago. agree that its important for people to respond whether they support of not.
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Permalink Reply by Dl Allen on
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I live in the area at the top of this table, Green lanes/West Green road and we have seen traffic and congestion rise to the highest limits within my 35 yrs living in the area, since the implementation of the St.Anns LTN.
The St. Ann’s LTN should be treated similar to a bus gate with timed restrictions during school hours and lifted in the evenings and weekends, which is not rat running for those outside of the borough, but mainly used by residents living in the borough, or those visiting families that live in the borough.For my West Green community, we have seen this as the most selfish move from Haringey yet, with increased health risks for our children and adults with vulnerabilities. Even on a bus, it can take 10 minutes to travel a few meters due to the heavy level of overflow traffic who can no longer use La Rose Lane.
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I have argued on many previous threads that a holistic solution to the area’s traffic problems is needed, not least because I think the geography is a crucial factor — the impassable barrier of the railway, with only two crossing points, and Green Lanes’s role as a major north/south route. Both Cllr Hakata and council officers promised to implement a mitigation plan for GL before the LTN was created and nothing at all has been done. Until and unless measures are taken to, at the least, improve public transport flow (bus lanes, traffic lights priority), limit parking and control ingress/egress at the GL/North Circular junction (rush hour restrictions), traffic frustrated by the jams on GL will always try to find alternative routes.
I live in St Ann’s and the LTN has made no difference at all to my road, which was already very quiet and traffic-free; as far as I can see, the scheme was only ever to deal with two roads that already had a far lower accident rate than GL or West Green Road, so “sledgehammer” and “nut” come to mind. The stats below also show that traffic in GL significantly increased at two of the three monitoring points (by over 50% in one case), which appears to endorse the predictions that traffic on “boundary” roads would get far worse under the scheme.
Salami-slicing Harringay into pockets of blocked side roads (the east side of GL is now a series of LTN’s from Hermitage Rd to Turnpike Lane) without doing anything about GL and its fundamental problems simply creates yet more gridlock on GL and does absolutely nothing to solve the overall problem. Harringay bestrides the equivalent of a major trunk route — which is also our local high street and shopping centre — and until something is done to cope with that, forcing more and more traffic onto it by closing side streets isn’t the answer. I’ve registered my objections to the LTN (created in the first place mainly because there was “free” money from City Hall, and supported beforehand by just a tiny minority of St Ann’s residents) but have no expectations that it won’t be made permanent.
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Agree fully with what you have said, as a resident living on one of those boundary roads. Absolute no positives for us West Green residents since the implementation of the LTNs.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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It's just taken me nearly an hour and a half on a 41 bus to get from Whitington hospital to home (close to Chestnuts park). Grid lock on Turnpike Lane and then again on WGR. It would have been much quicker to walk if I was able to, but I wasn't able to today because of my hospital visit.
I don't think this grid lock is unusual because my children (teenagers) have given up trying to get buses either way along WGR in the mornings and evenings.
I am against the LTNs mainly for this reason, and it must be really horrible for those living along or close to WGR.
Like Don, my street has always been very quiet, at least since CPZ was introduced. It's so quiet now I actually feel less safe, particularly if I'm coming home alone at night.
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(Off topic, but another route for the Whittington is to use Harringay's second mainline rail station, Harringay, Green Lanes. Take it to Upper Holloway. There's something like a ten minute walk at either end, but I find it a pretty efficient alternative.)
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(I'm usually very happy with a bit of walking, and I'd rather take your suggested route than suffering the grid lock on Turnpike Lane and WGR, but I couldn't do 2 x a ten minute walk after my hospital visit today.
My son uses this train route to get home from his college in Highgate, now the 41 is no longer a viable option for him since the LTNs were introduced. It does cost a fair bit more than the bus though.)
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To me it seems like what's needed is improvements to Green Lanes to manage traffic flow - although making it easier to drive through somewhere tends to just increase the volume of traffic. The experience would be much nicer though if there was no parking on Green Lanes itself replaced with either a permanent bus lane and/or a proper cycle lane. Always going to be tough though because it's a bit of a bottle neck, not helped by all the traffic generated by the shopping centre.
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Harringay has had an "unofficial" LTN for some years now since the Gardens were effectively closed off and a cycle lane established through to St Ann's Road.
This has put extra pressure on Green Lanes and the Ladder roads in the main shopping/restaurant area.
It's reasonable and highly desirable to have traffic measures on streets where there are schools...of course!
Mike Hakata (London Cycling Campaign member?) has staked his career reputation on implementing this scheme across the Ladder roads without due regard to the various needs of local residents.
Who is affected adversely?
1. Able bodied SME or freelancer business drivers who need to use their vehicles for work. Why can't a number plate recognition system (NPRS) be put in place to help these drivers using the exits/entrances to LTNs without incurring heavy fines every time? The engagement of companies consulting over the LTNs has cost Harringay hundreds of thousands. The cost of simple NPRS is minor by comparison.
2. Those people with disabilities not covered by the Blue Badge narrow criteria.
Will the numerous Amazon,NPD,UPS,Swift, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all...etc...delivery services come to a full stop? I bet they get some compensatory scheme as the council only listens to the needs of businesses.
How will this be organised? Residents' car registrations are already in the Council's database...what's the problem?
TFL - will they agree? - They need the bus routes to be kept open. They also need traffic flow and businesses need access for deliveries like the big shops and supermarkets.
Pedestrianisation of Green Lanes
a. It benefits the restaurant owners who don't invest in the street design and furniture..nor the restoring of buildings etc. Customers drive in here and take over our car spaces anyway...will this be profitable?
b. The council hasn't acted on the poor air quality from the charcoal particulates in this quarter emanating from these restaurants and the overwhelmingly stupid trend for domestic wood burners. These particulates ....said to be more dangerous than diesel fume particulates (*) ....blanket the evening air around the Ladder throughout the cold weather up until Easter. Do your children suffer from this? Of course! Do the elderly? Of course! ....and you will too. Will the Council investigate this? No way.
Fair Consultation?
1.The consultation depends on people knowing about it. If you are not on a list or belong to a pressure group (Harringay Healthy Streets etc..) then you just won't know. This is dreadfully unfair.
When we as residents were last fully consulted about ten...twelve years ago.. there were printed plans and alternatives delivered to every resident 's house.
A shop on Green Lanes near the Overground bridge was rented for several weeks to give residents a meaningful opportunity to engage with planners and representatives from Haringey Council planners, authors of alternative plans and the guys from TFL. Residents were allowed to make suggestions.The result was the fairest ever applied on this issue. The practical results are today evident to see. Small steps but a good start. As a result of the original plans agreed by residents ten or so years ago Wightman Road has a traffic calming system that improves the area and stops the boy racers. Well done for that! Newer residents won't know of this of course.
2. Most people don't have time to participate in local politics due to a whole host of reasons but mainly putting bread on the table. If you are a new resident and/or if you have never engaged with local politics ...have poor language skills etc etc then what about your rights to engage with this process? How discriminatory is it? Most of the people attending LSCP meetings are highly articulate and well educated white British middle class residents.
3. Many people don't know about this website (Harringay Online) let alone the plans of a few who have used local organisations like the Ladder Community Safety Partnership (LCSP) to promote their view. The attendance at these meetings is dire but still quoted as "representative". Public meetings the same old same old...middle class house owners who work from home in an age range of 30 -55! Still fit enough not to need a car for shopping! Well ...well done if you want to brave cycling in London!
4. Pensioners struggle to shop with trolleys etc...we all can't walk safely and carry shopping with ease after 70! If you need a walking stick then that cuts your chances of shopping by more than half...how do you carry it all?!!!
5. Above all...the danger to women and the vulnerable walking in winter months down dark virtually empty streets...
Who cares about this?
Haringey..show us real consultation....or is it the same old same old?
(*) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/14/wood-burning-st...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/27/wood-burning-...
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Barbara — You make excellent points. Local authority “consultation” (not just in Haringey) is usually a political figleaf, with results ignored if they don’t support the council plans — eg. the renaming of Black Boy Lane, universally opposed by residents of the street itself but still bulldozed through by the council. My memory is that the St Ann’s LTN was extremely vigorously promoted by Cllr Hakata, egged on by a tiny but highly vocal pressure group that surprisingly found enough money to blanket the area with leaflets supporting it, on top of a council brochure that — understandably — only talked about positives. Even so, in the consultation results still only a few hundred people supported the scheme (from a ward population of over 10,000); but it went ahead anyway.
As you say, LTNs appear devised to benefit the able-bodied and fit, with a huge bias towards cycling, and at the expense of anyone less able to move about. The admirable goal of reducing dependency on fossil fuels leads to the creation of enclaves with fewer cars and better air quality, but at the expense of adjacent areas that have to cope with the displaced traffic — see the torrent of complaints from Haringey residents in Bounds Green when Enfield arbitrarily put in an LTN on their side of the boundary, as well as the impact of St Ann’s on Green Lanes. More importantly, in their zeal to get cars out of LTNs and onto “boundary” roads, planners ignore the fact that major roads such as GL, West Green, etc, are bus routes. Endless delays to buses and routes cut short because jams make keeping to timetable impossible just prejudice people even more against use of public transport — supposedly a viable alternative promoted by the creation of an LTN — and disadvantage large numbers of people who wouldn’t have travelled by car in the first place.
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