Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Duke of Edinburgh pub, 83 Mayes Road N22 6TN
This pub has been subject to extensive unauthorised alterations and converted to a Lebanese restaurant. Haringey Council were notified of the lack of planning permission for this change of use in November 2020. They visited the premises and confirmed the unauthorised change of use, but gave the owners two opportunities to submit a retroactive planning application, which has now been made:
This is likely to end (as with the Nelson pub) with a stand-off with Haringey Council and the owners trying to exploit Haringey’s reluctance to initiate legal proceedings in defence of its own planning regulations. Nonetheless, we’ve all seen the loss of too many pubs in the area, and the detrimental effect of the lack of planning enforcement in Wood Green, so it’s ‘Once More into the Breach, Dear Friends, Once More!’ and OBJECT!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sixfaces on
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Thanks Richard, have objected, highlighting that the pubs listed as 'nearby' in defence of the application are all clustered next to Wood Green Station and that there is nothing similar on the West side of Wood Green High Street, and the closest similar (though not heritage) establishment - the tap room at The Goodness Brewery Company - shows there is ample appetite for such a pub in the area.
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Permalink Reply by Straw Cat on
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Surely there's no legal risk to Haringey on Appeal if their policies in the local plan are clear. Also I should contact the local CAMRA who will doubtless whack in strong objections. Too many local pubs being lost.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Matz on
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The stout yeomanry of CAMRA are have been following this case and will doubtless pitch in
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Permalink Reply by Adrian Hackney on
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What exactly , in terms of Haringey planning policy , areyour objections to a change of use from a place where you can buy food and drink and sit and consume it to a place where you can buy food and drink and sit and consume it?
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I'm going to say, Adrian, that one use is a fully seated area prioritising in selling food, and the other is a differently organised space prioritising selling alcohol. Both have different priorities and goals and bring different advantages to the local community. We have lots and lots of restaurants nearby and very few pubs. Pubs are more open and more social and generally can bring more to the community. In restaurants, people keep to the same table in small groups and are less likely to socialise. I'm surprised this needs explaining, to be honest.
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You have carefully avoided any reference to Haringey planning policy, the only possible reason for a valid objection
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Permalink Reply by Costa on
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If of interest:
- Haringey DPD Policy DM50: Public Houses
- Haringey Policy DM49: Managing the provision of Community Infrastructure
- London Plan Policy HC7: Protecting Public Houses
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Thank you Costa. Pubs, wine bars, drinking establishments are all now “Sui Generis”, which means you require planning permission to change their use into restaurants. If planning rules were the same, this establishment wouldn’t need to apply for retrospective permission. The whole point of this post. Hopefully this clears it up for you.
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Attempts to legitimise the unauthorised conversion of the pub into a restaurant were rejected by Haringey last November. Four months later, the restaurant is still trading without authorisation. You will note that there are no alcoholic drinks are available on the menu:
Emboldened by Haringeys lack of enforcement of its own planning regulations, the owners have now submitted a planning application for a far more substantial redevelopment of the site. You will notice that the application disingenuously refers to the pub that is no longer there:
HGY/2022/0723 - Erection of a rear roof extension to existing public house building to create 21 Class C1 guest rooms across first, second and third floors above retained pub, and erection of a 5 storey building to rear to provide 9 no. Class C3 residential flats, with basement below to serve pub.
I have submitted a complaint about the Haringey’s lack of enforcement of its own planning regulations which encourages illicit building and construction (e.g. The Lord Nelson pub still trading as a restaurant despite planning refusal)
“But the pub was derelict... they’ve made such a nice job of it...” came the cry. But what if they had made a really bad job of it? If a family home next to you was made into a House of Multiple Occupancy without planning permission where half a dozen or more vulnerable people are overcrowded into small unsanitary spaces - Who do you complain to? A planning dept with no teeth? Want to see a planning Free4All? Walk through the fug of woodsmoke and charring flesh down Wood Green High Road this weekend. Note the proliferation of pound shops, mobile phone/vaping shacks, casinos, bookies, chicken & kebab shops.
Yeah or Nay, please submit your comments on the application on the above link
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Haringey seem to have a track record of failing to enforce illegitimate development of vacant pubs. Something very similar happened to the Queens Head on Green Lanes and no action was ever taken. Well done for resisting.
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Thanks Hugh
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What a shame!
A handsome original building and pub with a garden to boot!
whatever is left of the bar/ restaurant will be a shadow of what it could have been . You only have to look at the Ranlagh or Prince to see that.
it’ll end up as a 24h convenience store. Just like the Queens
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