Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Black Lives Matter - Locally
I hope people read this Guardian article from June 24th.
I think it was on HoL that I first learned of this incident in Burgoyne Road, but can't remember in what section. At the time it wasn't clear why Jordan Walker-Brown was climbing over a wall. The use of a taser on an unarmed man running away was all the more shocking in his account.
What can we do to limit the use of tasers by police? Apparently the government plan that more and more officers shall have them.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rebecca Thomas on
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I agree with this. It’s true. Two sides to every story. You don’t know what was said or what the police officer reasonably believed. What if the guy imitated he had a gun? What if it was reasonably believed he had something more than just cannabis, what if it was believed he had class A drugs and / or a lot of them? Why was he running from the police? Was he warned not to run? (Probably) was he warned he would be tasered if he didn’t stop? Probably.
Although I accept there is a problem with some police officers and racism, the vast majority in my opinion are doing a difficult job in difficult circumstances. And faced with a young man running away and resisting arrest, when we don’t know what was believed about the risk faced by both at that time, they are going to take action. Don’t judge that action until you know all of the facts.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Ruggles on
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Read and herd several reports
First it was not his first possible Offence. He Was stopped less than a week ago before
So because a known offender runs off. Are the police supposed to just let him Go ?
What other devise could the Police have used to stop him running off ?
It was His choice to try and Jump over a Wall. Which he must have been aware had a deep drop
There is a Major Drug issue in this Borough. Many people complain that there are regularly accosted by dealers in the street. It is effecting most Families that have youngsters
These days most dealers have money collectors and delivery people. So if stopped they do not have enough for a Court date
I have lived and work in this Borough for many years
The only issue is who currently runs the Local drug Services
Also with Police now having Drug Wipes for suspected Drug users and more Police vehicles equipped with APR cameras. They do seem to be reducing some of dealers activities
Even though there does seem to be a que for others to take over removed dealers
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Permalink Reply by kotkas on
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I agree. The situation in the USA especially turns my stomach. It's an incredibly complex issue to parse. Deprivation and crime are often linked, and many ethnic minorities are significantly worse off in almost all regards compared to whites. This plays out in the figures. Black individuals account for 3% of the UK population and c. 10% of convictions.
It is therefore unsurprising that there will be a bias in policing process and that many black individuals will be unfairly profiled. For example 37% of black individuals in London are stopped and searched - which is more than 3X the national conviction rate. This may be skewed by the fact that there are more black individuals in London, yet it's obvious that this bias is embedded in the system.
On an individual level I don't want S&S to be curbed, nor do I want Tasers to be banned. Simplistically, with less police on the streets one would want to give them more firepower to act on suspected crime thus compensating for some of this. Yet the way in which this power is targeted ought to be more intelligent and nuanced, informed to the maximum possible extent by intelligence and data.
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Permalink Reply by Michele on
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Join Stand Up to Racism and campaign with others locally. There are local branches with one in Haringey.
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I think there's two discussions here that go hand in hand - one is police acting either properly or improperly, the other is racism.
In the past 10 years here are the actual facts in terms of death by police action and in police custody:
- 140 white
- 13 black
- 10 other races
That's in ten years.
I think it's worth bearing these in mind when discussing this situation as we're not chatting about the US here.
For some added perspective -
- 285 deaths from stabbings ('17)
- 24 deaths from shootings ('18)
And that's not even looking at the casualties from stabbings and shootings which often leave the victims paralysed of with catheters for the rest of their lives.
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Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on
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So what point are you proving? Obviously you are bearing in mind that black people make up only 3% of the population but 8% of deaths in custody?
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Yeh and 8% of the population is Asian and they account for only 3% of the very same deaths. Why is that?
What the stats tell us is that over 10 years, the number of deaths, although tragic, are tiny number compared to the number of young men of all ethnic groups killing each other in only one year.
I don't see people protesting against boys murdering each other, because it's easier to get on the back of the police constantly.
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Don't get me wrong, I know issue personally very well, the Police have indeed been racist on many occasions, but if you open your mind up a bit, to solve racism and create equal opportunity you need to look at all the angles. After George Floyd murder you've seen a focus on statues and police - frankly **** that.
I'm sorry but inequality needs to be solved through economic and educational opportunities AS WELL AS rectifying historic wrongs and holding the police to account.
What the people in power across all sections of society want to do is paint victims and focus on history, rather than actually sharing power, economics and educational opportunities in today's society.
Does that make sense?
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It makes complete sense. This is precisely the issue with 99% of the whole debate and all parties moan about issues that are fundamentally the product of systemic inequality.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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Equality of opportunity won't fix it when some people have a starting point well ahead of others.
I was given everything by my parents: expensive education, overseas trips, a happy stable upbringing and at the age of 37 I paid off my mortgage with some of the proceeds of my dad's estate.
Rewind to 1981 when I was adopted by my parents. If this had not happened I would have been born in poverty to a single parent. Now imagine if I had also been born black (not so hard for me to imagine: I'm told my heritage is mixed although my appearance is very white).
I don't think "equality of opportunity" would have been enough to get me where I am today.
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Perfect equality doesn't exist nor it ever will. There will always be individuals who by virtue of lineage, education or other factors are (and will be) better off than others. The issue is that too few individuals of minority backgrounds fall into this category, which is one of the main factors behind crime and the resulting bias in policing.
There is absolutely no way to redistribute the wealth in society to level the playing field such that everyone gets the same start. Equal opportunity works.
As a foreign national I came to the UK to study 15 years ago with a net worth of 0, worked my way though university, bagged a job in a well paying industry, with no help from my family or the state.
It's not a perfect society but far more meritocratic than 80% of the world so let's recognise how privileged even the most disadvantaged are here compared to much of the rest of the world (including where I am from.)
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