Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Proposed Wightman Road bus route - the Mayor speaks
Campaigners for a new bus route along Wightman Road will be disappointed at Boris Johnson's cavalier response to a question put forward by Labour GLA member Joanne McCartney.
The Mayor's answer is as follows:
"The vast majority of the area served by this suggested new route is within walking distance of high frequency services providing very similar journey opportunities. These routes include:
• The 29 which serves the other side of the “Harringay Ladder” which links Wood Green, Finsbury Park and Holloway;
• The W3 which links Stroud Green and New River Village to Wood Green and Finsbury Park, where other high frequency services facilitate interchange for those wishing to travel to Holloway; and
• The 91 which links Hornsey Road to Holloway and Crouch End where other high frequency services facilitate interchange for those wishing to travel to Wood Green.
The suggested route would therefore not increase passenger numbers sufficiently to justify the cost."
The Mayor has ignored the fact that the main interest in a proposed bus route along Wightman Road comes from residents of that road who find it difficult to climb the often steep roads which connect Green Lanes and Wightman Road and who are therefore impeded in their access to the bus network. The existence of bus routes along Priory Road and along Green Lanes does not address their concerns.
There may well be reasons for not introducing a bus route along Wightman Road. It is, after all, both narrow and residential, and I have yet to make up my own mind.
What I can say, though, is that the Mayor’s reason is not a good reason and that he has failed to look into the question properly.
Perhaps HoL subscribers should club together to buy the Mayor a topographical map.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Chairman for Tottenham
The Mayor's answer is as follows:
"The vast majority of the area served by this suggested new route is within walking distance of high frequency services providing very similar journey opportunities. These routes include:
• The 29 which serves the other side of the “Harringay Ladder” which links Wood Green, Finsbury Park and Holloway;
• The W3 which links Stroud Green and New River Village to Wood Green and Finsbury Park, where other high frequency services facilitate interchange for those wishing to travel to Holloway; and
• The 91 which links Hornsey Road to Holloway and Crouch End where other high frequency services facilitate interchange for those wishing to travel to Wood Green.
The suggested route would therefore not increase passenger numbers sufficiently to justify the cost."
The Mayor has ignored the fact that the main interest in a proposed bus route along Wightman Road comes from residents of that road who find it difficult to climb the often steep roads which connect Green Lanes and Wightman Road and who are therefore impeded in their access to the bus network. The existence of bus routes along Priory Road and along Green Lanes does not address their concerns.
There may well be reasons for not introducing a bus route along Wightman Road. It is, after all, both narrow and residential, and I have yet to make up my own mind.
What I can say, though, is that the Mayor’s reason is not a good reason and that he has failed to look into the question properly.
Perhaps HoL subscribers should club together to buy the Mayor a topographical map.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Chairman for Tottenham
Tags for Forum Posts: TfL, W1 Bus, Wightman Road, public transport
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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Hi John. Welcome back.
To all 'W1 Bus' enthusiasts/afficinados/supporters/well-wishers -especially if you live on any of the other Ladder Roads - this is by way of an S.O.S. or Mayday call.
While I have done a fairly fruitful sweep of Wightman Road, with some more mopping up to go, I have been wilting recently. The old knees are complaining, so I'd prefer my further face-to-face petitioning to be on more level ground - or better still stationary, as on Harringay & Hornsey Station approaches.
If you could possibly lend a hand with one or more Ladder Rung Roads, at least West of the Passage, I would be very happy to let you have any number of Petition Signature Sheets. (25 signatures per top petition sheet, with 30 on each extension sheet) Just Message me here, with your Road and House Number so I can deliver them through your letter box.
Despite the recent splash of cold water from Boris and TfL, we hope to continue our petition of Wightman Road and environs through the remaining weeks of August. As John suggests, we are quite open to modification of the Route along the lines mentioned by Stephen, Graham and others in this thread - including TfL, London TravelWatch or even the hands-on Boris.
Cheers. Eddie
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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StephenBln asked me about the 318 bus route which runs between Stamford Hill and North Middlesex Hospital - wending it's way round various back streets.
I wasn't directly involved in the campaign to get this bus. So if anyone wants firm dates and financial detail I suggest asking TfL and Haringey's Urban Environment Department. And maybe contacting Travel Watch.
I asked Ray Dodds who - at the time - was the "lead councillor" on Environmental Services. As he recalls, the key arguments were about making it easier for people to get to and from the hospital. And access by people living away from the main High Road routes - many of whom are elderly, and/or have a disability.
I'm not a transport planner and I don't know where a £1 million per bus route figure comes from. (I'm not saying it's wrong; I simply don't know.) Ray said that the Bus Company were initially sceptical about the level of income from fares from the route. So for one year, Haringey guaranteed a possible shortfall in fares income up to £70k. In the event, the 'take' from fares and bus passes was higher than anticipated and Ray thought there was no call on the guarantee.
Perhaps most significantly, the guarantee was possible because it came out of the Parking Account. (Which is ring-fenced for transport-related spend.) And, at that time, parking income was treated as an unpredictable variable; and not built into the base budget. The reasoning was that schemes like CPZs should be self-financing. While other income - e.g. from bus lanes and yellow box junctions would peak, and then fall steeply as drivers observed the restrictions. In other words the aim was compliance, not income generation.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Thanks for this useful information Alan
- OK our 'W1' Wightman Road bus doesn't have a hospital link (yet) :o) - but there are plenty of elderly in its catchment area- and the topography of the area surely makes it difficult for many to remain mobile..
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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And I received this email from TfL today:
Our ref: 1004956416
Date: 19.10.2009
Dear Mr McMullan
Thank you for your further feedback.
I have investigated your further points and can confirm the following.
I am sorry you feel that the W3 is not adequate. Although no buses run along Wightman Road itself, as stated previously, it is felt that the area is currently well served by the bus network. High frequency routes such as the 29, 141 and W5 pass within a short walking distance of Wightman Road.
When considering any potential new bus route we have to balance the level of benefit to local residents and bus passengers against the cost to both fare-payers and tax-payers. In this case, the benefits of the route would not justify the cost of introducing it.
However, I would like to reassure you that this is not merely a question of expense. TfL take into account many different aspects such as the need and demand for such a route. Please be assured that we make every effort to connect local centres and residential areas, and to respond positively to requests for direct connections. However, it is not always possible to provide a direct link for every journey or implement all of the suggestions we receive. Ultimately, we have to make sure that we use the resources available to provide services that will benefit the majority of passengers using a route. Let me assure you that all new and existing bus routes are assessed in great detail and access to local infrastructure, for example, hospitals, shops and schools, is included in this.
I am sorry I am unable to respond more positively to your request on this occasion however I hope the information provided helps.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.
Yours sincerely
Kate Keane
Customer Services
Customer Service Centre
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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Lucky to get a reply! Am doing battles with TfL...
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Well John, that certainly feels like another polite kick in the balls. The only plus is I did get to meet most of my neighbours.
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately the Mayor is continuing his policy of ignoring the most compelling argument in favour of a Wightman Road bus route, namely that people who have difficulty in walking cannot manage the hilly terrain. The following "answer" to a question posed by Caroline Pidgeon, Lib Dem London Assembly Member, refers:
Bus route for Wightman Road, Haringey
Question No: 3297 / 2009
Caroline Pidgeon
The answer given by TfL to my Question 2404/2009, requesting a bus route diversion via Wightman Road, Haringey, does not address the issue that residents with mobility problems who live on Wightman Road cannot climb the hill from existing bus routes along Green Lanes. Nor does it address your integrated transport agenda that buses should connect with trains by introducing such a connection at Harringay rail station on Wightman Road. Are these desirable outcomes no longer affordable under the new TfL Business Plan ?Answer from the Mayor:
Whilst I accept there would be some transport benefits to introducing the suggested service, you will be aware that it is essential to plan and deliver the bus network to achieve maximum benefits from the available funding. Having considered the cost, to implement the route you suggest is unfortunately too high to justify taking into account expected usage.
A Freedom of Information Act request (for information about the precise route that was costed, together with the costings which have been forecast together with the precise criteria which are applied in order to determine whether a given cost is justified or not) may be useful at this point. Thereafter, we could try a refined proposal and have another go. I'll let you know how I get on.
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