Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Illegal job advert?
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Permalink Reply by Suraya on
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I was talking to a laywer friend about this the other day. She said job ads are actually a kind of grey area under the law, because the law requires "actual" discrimination rather than "saying" you're going to discriminate - which is all a job ad can do. However, most places that publish job ads (eg, websites) will not allow this kind of thing because it strongly suggests "actual" discrimination will happen in future.
A poster like this would also be golden evidence in a tribunal if any male person who applied for a job wanted to take a case.
Reporting to the police is not the right option - both because "intent to discriminate" isn't a offence and because you need a specific person to be discriminated against - and the right place for them to take it is employment tribunal.
One of the problems preventing this kind of thing is exactly this - there doesn't seem to be any system in the UK to report and have employers who do this advised by someone official, which would be enormously helpful as most seem to do it unaware that it's illegal to discriminate - the Equality and Human Rights commission for example doesn't seem to have a system for people to report these kinds of things; whereas in other countries similar organisations do.
This is by no means a problem restricted to Turkish etc restaurants. If you are a man, try going into the metal/goth bar on Holloway Road called Big Red and ask for a job - they will blatantly tell you that they only employ women to work behind the bar. They say this is because "men are lazy" -_-
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Permalink Reply by Ian Craine on
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I raised this point before but nobody really dealt with it definitively so here goes again. It's really a question if anybody knows the answer- I don't. Let's suppose a business applies for a Quality Standards mark like Investors In People. Let's further suppose that an audit reveals that too many men and too few women are employed by the business. The business has say three months to rectify this diversity issue to save its application which it has put time and resources into. Is there then a problem for it to advertise for women only (in this case)?
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No, that would not be justifiable as per my reply to your other comment above - the "positive action" clause can only be used to decide between applicants of equal merit, not to limit who can apply... but it's a grey area because job ads are not discrimination in and of themselves, but can be used of evidence of discrimination.
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Hi, Suraya. sorry I've just realised you sent another reply which is on p2- very confusing. OK. It seems to be counterintuitive and could I imagine cause problems when applying for quality accreditation. And does that work in politics for example when parties state they are going to have women only applicants in certain seats to even out the numbers? The whole thing is an utter minefield.
(MESSAGE TO HUGH: Is it possible to get posts placed in strict chronological order? For example here Suraya seems to have sent two posts at about the same time and one ends up on page 2 and the other on page 3. So I replied to one without noticing the other. I realise that's because one was specifically a reply to another post on p2 (from me in fact) but it might be easier if we referred to name of poster and date but kept the chronology. Just a thought).
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Women-only shortlists? Yes, good question... I imagine they have sought legal advice on that one but also it would be an unusual case because being a candidate isn't a job but being an MP is, and it's constituents that select MPs not political parties, so discriminating among potential candidates is more difficult to argue that it is employment discrimination because being a candidate isn't employment. I'm not a lawyer though... this is pure conjecture. And even if I was a lawyer, it wouldn't be case law :-)
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Oh if you're interested in reading more about this kind of thing, the Employment Tribunal publish all their decisions on Gov.UK, and you can filter them by different criteria. I found it really helpful in understanding exactly where the bar is in terms of what is and isn't considered discrimination... well at this moment in history anyway.
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We could go on nattering about this forever I guess, Suraya. I can see you've thought about it quite a lot and you make pretty perceptive comments. It just occurs to me that though constituents select MPs they can only select them from the candidates chosen by the Parties and if the MP elected is from a Party who had a woman only shortlist then it's the Party that has created the act of discrimination- if indeed it is discriminatory.
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