Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay, Hornsey or Green Lanes? The 1888 view...
As we all know, there is a constant debate about whether our illustrious neighbourhood should be called Harringay, Green Lanes, Harringay Green Lanes, Hornsey or some other permutation of these names.
I was in St. Paul's vicarage on Wightman Road last night to help the new curate to sort out a load of old papers that need to be kept somewhere else - most are probably going to the London Metropolitan Archives - and we came across a bound volume of parish magazines, going back to the very first edition in January 1888. Here is what was published therein on the subject of the name of the area:
"In some old books and maps, and in some not very old, we find the old parish of which we form a part is described as "Hornsey or Harringay," though the spelling of the latter name varies. The old village or town of Hornsey is content now to use the former name alone, and we, on the ground once attached to Harringay House, may well use the latter graceful word, and make it the special property of our district, which the Great Northern Railway help us to do by calling their station "Harringay," which is close to the site for our church."
(Note that this was written before the "original" St. Paul's Church was built on the corner of Burgoyne and Wightman Roads, but after the "Iron Church" had been established at the Green Lanes end of Burgoyne Road.)
Tags for Forum Posts: St Paul's, church, names
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Interesting. This was pretty early and before the neighbourhood was developed. Hornsey borough only ran as far east as somewhere between two-thirds and seven-eighths eastwards along the Ladder roads. The eastern end of the Ladder roads and all the rest of Harringay today was part of the borough of Tottenham.
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Permalink Reply by Bethany Burrow Atherton on
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Plus, the site for the permanent (as yet unbuilt) church was in Hornsey, but the Iron Church was in Tottenham...
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So the author may have been new to the area and not understood local history, perhaps?
Or was it something else? I think there was a snobbery about being identified as being connected to to the more affluent Hornsey than with Tottenham.
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I think the article below is the key - this all was written before the Gardens were built, so a fairly small part of the then intended parish/district was in the borough of Tottenham - perhaps the author lived in the Hornsey part and just assumed that was the end of it? I'm not saying there wasn't snobbery though....!
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Ah, okay, so it was more akin the Ladder-centricity. It seems that the issue was both the area of focus, (Ladder only) and the date, since the author was writing at a time when only the Ladder was being developed.
For the interest of others, below is a map I composed some years ago. It shows the boundaries of the boroughs that today make up Haringey. You'll see that in some Ladder roads, Tottenham covered about a third of their eastern end.
Do keep these historical gems coming, please!
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Here's a bit more from the very next article about the parish boundaries:
"It will be interesting to our readers to have a statement of the boundaries of our district in this first number of the Magazine. The new district of St. Paul, to be constituted a parish in due time, is taken from three parishes, the larger portion from St. Mary's, the mother parish of Hornsey; a part between the Midland Railway and Finsbury Park, from Holy Trinity, Stroud Green; and a strip fringing the Green Lanes from St. Ann's, Tottenham. The boundaries are, the Great Northern Railway on the west, Finsbury Park on the south, the Green Lanes on the east and one of the new roads, not yet built, on the north."
As it happened, more of St. Ann's parish was ultimately included and pretty much all of the Gardens is in the parish - in fact there was a "mission church" on Stanhope Gardens for a number of years which served that area as part of the parish of St. Paul's.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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Great history, really interesting and thanks for posting.
Boundaries always somewhat disputed and identities along with them.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Bethany. Any chance you can scan the relevant document, and deposit them with someone like Hugh who has an archive of Harringay related info? It would be useful to keep things like this before they are lost or forgotten.
Also, what is your reference to a Iron Church, did they literally build a church of iron?
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The volume will be going to the London Metropolitan Archives, to live with the 300 odd other documents, albums, plans etc. related to St. Paul's, Harringay that are already there, so it will be available publicly just like all the other stuff; the records of this church have been properly handled and deposited at the LMA and, in spite of the 1984 fire, far more have survived than for many other churches (in other words, nothing's getting lost or forgotten on my watch
). It is not feasible to scan it as it is delicate and bound (being 125 years old), but I will take a picture of the relevant page and post it later.On the iron room - yes, they built a church of iron. They had one at Holy Trinity in Stroud Green as well (although I'm not sure if that was the church or a hall), so I'm guessing it was the thing to do as a temporary measure at the time.
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Just realised (I'm at work and all the stuff's on my home computer) - the 1888 articles that I originally posted up top are in a bound volume that I currently have, but which is going to the LMA. The other passage that Justin was responding to is in a volume that is already at the LMA - I do have a picture of it, though, and will post later. We have asked the LMA if we can temporarily withdraw that volume, along with a load of other stuff, for our exhibition on 8/9 November about the First World War, so I'll let you know if that comes off and you'll be able to see the thing in person!
Also - you might find this interesting. I don't think that the Harringay one was on quite such a scale, though!
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By the way, the reason I latched onto the iron church element was that it stuck me as being possibly a bit cold in the winter...
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Ha ha - believe me, until the new heating system was put in the present church a couple of years ago, that problem was still current!!!
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