Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

The rebranding of our neighbourhood is about to become a live issue again with the Council asserting its claimed right to choose what we're called for the signage to be erected as part of the 2013 regeneration work.

The tussle over Harringay's name has been going on for over a hundred years. Throughout that time it seems to have featured a struggle between the Council, on the one hand, claiming a right to choose and the local people, on the other, demanding a right to self-determination. 

Over a hundred years ago, and long before the creation of Haringey borough, Hornsey District Council decided to change the spelling of Harringay Neighbourhood to Haringey. Local people took exception at this imposition from above and resisted the change. The opinion was expressed by, amongst others, the Harringay Ratepayers Association who represented the people of one of three Harringay Wards. Theirs was in part of what is now St Ann's Ward. The legacy of the struggle can be seen today in the signage along the Harringay Passage.

Local people won the day then and our name was safe until the latter part of the last century when the Council administration decided they had a right to change Harringay's name. Haringey Councillor and cabinet member, Nilgun Canver explained a couple of years back:

Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens

It's odd to see the modern day Haringey Labour party, erstwhile representatives of the people, following in the footsteps of the Tory burghers of Hornsey Council. Moreover, I'm afraid this argument just doesn't wash with me. The inhabitants of countless other London boroughs seem to manage perfectly well with boroughs and towns that bear the same name. Islington, Hackney, Camden, Enfield and many others all survive. Perhaps the real issue is that a name was chosen that doesn't share the same name as the Council's chosen administrative capital as it is the case for all the other London boroughs I've mentioned. Their vanity perhaps requires that it should do so. But is this reason enough for us to be stripped of our historical name?

For many people, this whole issue may seem esoteric and rather irrelevant. However, I'm not alone in taking a rather different view. My belief is that for our neighbourhood to thrive and for people to identify with it, it needs to have a single name. Right now, as the traders magazine posted through your door just before Christmas bears witness, we have at least three names. How can our identity and distinctiveness be developed when this is the case.

I said just now that I wasn't alone in taking a stance on this. In New York, Democrat Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries thought the principle involved in the issue was so important that he introduced the Neighbourhoods Identity Act, requiring New York City to develop a community-oriented process of community agreement before neighbourhoods can be rebranded or boundaries redefined. 

I'm with you Hakeem.

So then, which name? The current variants are:

  • the original Harringay
  • Harringay Green Lanes
  • Green Lanes


Others have been suggested including Harringay Park and Harringay Village.

My choice is simple. I stick with Harringay. Why? Two reasons. Firstly, that's the name we've had for 130 years and I see no need to change it. Secondly, the other names don't work for me. Green Lanes is a road that runs from Newington Green to Enfield. If avoidance of confusion is the aim, this doesn't do it. Harringay Green Lanes is a three word name. Three word names don't stick. Most of them tend to get abbreviated to the first word of the name anyway. Kingston-upon-Thames for example is more commonly called Kingston. St Martins in the Fields is known as St Martins, and so on.

I suppose there is a third reason for me and that's just that I don't like people asserting rights over me that I don't believe they have. I don't believe that the Council or the Green Lanes Strategy Group have the right to change the name of the place I live in, no matter how much good work they may do. That just bridles. No, I'm with the thoroughly democratic instincts of Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. Even if I am a voice in the wilderness, I say if there's any need to tinker with the name of our neighbourhood, then let the community decide what it should be.

In 2013, as things stand the Council and the Green Lanes Strategy Group will assert their right to brand your neighbourhood as they see fit as part of the Harringay regeneration project. I was promised that the community would be given the right to choose and to influence the way that choice was made. In a  few recent email exchanges I have detected the possibility of more than a little back-pedaling on this issue. 

So, once I have written this post, I will email Councillor Canver, Chair of the Green Lanes Strategy Group to ask for her public commitment that the community be given the determining voice in what our neighbourhood is called.

Amendment

The following paragraphs were added as a comment to this thread by the original author on 5th Jan 2013. Since they cover key issues, and I have been told the comment is hard to find, I have copied them in below:

Having picked up on Alan's suggestion to refer to the legal situation for changing an area's name, a relatively quick spin through sources available has turned up some interesting information.

1. A neighbourhood name has no legal status.

2. The closest approximation for any legal status is contained in quasi-legal or "official" gazettes, such as the Royal Mail's PAF Gazette.

However, even though the information they contain is official rather than legal, it's fascinating to see what lengths the Royal Mail has to go to in order to change the name of a neighbourhood.

Their guidance details a three month consultation process in order to allow changing the name of a neighbourhood in its gazette. The process includes writing to every address affected as well as the MP and other official bodies.

3. Street names and numbers are governed by law, as Alan was told. The relevant legislation is the Public Health Acts Amendment Act of 1907. It says:

The local authority may, with the consent of two-thirds in number of the ratepayers, and persons who are liable to pay an amount in respect of council tax, in any street, alter the name of such street or any part of such street.

So, there is no law that governs the naming of neighbourhoods, but there are principles of justice aplenty that should guide the Council in how it behaves in a situation when it seeks to change an area's name.

As Planning Organisation, Planning Sanity puts it, a neighbourhood is:

" an area where inhabitants live and that it is their state of mind as to what constitutes their neighbourhood. A neighbourhood should not be seen to correspond to any legal or physical division, but more as a social concept, the evidence for which may be given by the people who live there."

If we take as a precedent the principles enshrined both in law and official practice and the opinion of urban experts, I can find no precedent or reference to any principle of justice which suggests that a name change can or should be imposed from above by a person, group of persons or body. At every turn I find evidence confirming my belief that the naming of a neighbourhood belongs to the people who inhabit it and should only be changed with painstaking consultation. It seems extraordinary then that any elected member or officer should even be considering  taking it upon themselves or a small semi-official body to rename a neighbourhood however well meaning might be their intent.

In other areas where a change has been sought, consultations have been the norm. Staines is the most recent example.

It's difficult not to wonder, if a Council is prepared to cut corners on allowing local people self-determintaion in less weighty situations such as this, where else are such 'efficiencies' made at the cost of democratic justice?

I remain convinced that unless and until we have a proper process whereby local residents approve a change, the Council should in all documents refer to Harringay as Harringay. 

Tags for Forum Posts: glsg, harringay name

Views: 7357

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Who elects the LCSP ? I have lived in the area for a long time and never heard anything about them. 

Anyone can attend the LCSP meetings, but, to the best of my knowledge, for one reason or another, attendance is quite limited. I think typically 6 to 8 attend and vote in the Chair, Ian Sygrave. Certainly that was the case when I used to attend but I stand ready to be corrected. 

I'll say it again, Ian does a good job. He has a strong focus on licensing and planning issues. I welcome what he does by and large. What I resist is the Council, the GLSG or anyone else using this tiny group supporting a hard working individual, as shorthand for all Ladder residents.

Thanks Hugh. I do think that, no matter how good they are, it is a bit far fetched to describe them as representative of the area. They do not promote themselves in the area.

No wonder they don't publish them, that's depressing reading.

The traders want advertising, they'll get it.

The name change that two of the attending councillors have come on here and one on Twitter and denied is taking place, is discussed.

The LCSP meetings are (or at least use to be) advertised on here. People chose not to go and say they are not represented, go and be represented!

They are old school but anyone can attend, should they be bothered, most aren't opting to mouth off instead.

Hugh, sustainability has many meanings, it wasn't just about finance but content, retaining members, development, progression etc

HOL is a relatively new beast and is operating within unchartered territory so there is a bit of a learning curve unlike RA who take a trusted path. HOL is a innovative entity so surely the script is being written as you go otherwise you are essential a forum for locals with zero power. It's surely the next logical step to take?

I have never seen them advertise a meeting here, but even if they have this does not represent the local people and they should be advertised around the community. It sounds like some masonic lodge.

I'm very interested in how digital tools in general and sites like HoL in particular can help at the local level, but for the reasons I've explained, HoL won't ever be an RA on my watch. However, it has been and still is at the disposal of RA's. I think there are different ways of running an RA that include digital tools. HoL can support that. Perhaps the best thing is to get a few folk together over a drink and brainstorm possibilities.

Think Hugh is right on this. HOL should not be an RA as such but certainly could facilitate, particularly with communications. Off-line meetings in a local pub (instead of 'dusty halls') facilitated by on-line communications of meeting dates, agendas, minutes, wider discussion of issues pre & post meetings etc seems do-able.  

Alan, a diference of views between me and Nilgun along with some other GLSG members is certainly a part of this, but I don't think the matter does or should balance on that difference. It is the views of the majority of residents that ought to carry the day.

I don't think there's any misunderstanding, Alan, though I'd be delighted to find there was. I've done all I can to make my views perfectly clear. I'd be very happy to hear more from Nilgun or other GLSG members about what underpins their standpoint

As to the email exchange between me and Nilgun, it predates everything that she referred to in her mail to Alison and everything referred to in my last comment. So I don't think it'll help - at least not enough to warrant me spending the time it would take to unearth it, unless it becomes critical for some reason.

Let me just leave this comment with a quote I first aired in 2009. It's taken from a book written by Thomas Burke in 1921:

But do you think the inhabitants of those villas will rank themselves with those of Tottenham or Hornsey? Not likely. They are of Harringay. The guide-book was right: it is a suburb with a distinct individuality of its own.

Proud of its lineage, proud of its appearance in thirteenth-century records, it declines to surrender its identity to those who claim lordship over it.

It's the last rusty vestiges of my decades ago training in a solicitors' office. 'Read the file'.  It used to annoy some of my colleagues when I switched to other jobs. But I nearly always found it helpful.

Sure it can't take too long to cut 'n' paste to HoL? But if it's really a long chore, just tell me the dates when the email thread began and ended and I'll ask Nilgun.

I've no idea what you imagine may be there or why you think it matters.

Cutting and pasting the email would be no issue, Alan, but it's more complicated than that. Alas, one platform change and two versions of Outlook for Mac later, the hopelessness of that software means that each time it crashed and had to be 'rebuilt',  any emails that predated each crash can't be opened without a hugely convoluted rigmarole. If I thought it was worth it, I might be more inclined, Alan, but as it is I feel little appetite. (See here - and Scavenger often doesn't work. I think there's a painstaking way round it, but as I said, life's too important.....). OK?

Alan, I have now been able to track down the email in question which I have forwarded to you by email. It dates from 31 March 2008 

If you really think it helps move the discussion forward, I will seek Councillor Canver's permission to publish it. I wouldn't publish any full email interaction without such permission.

RSS

Advertising

© 2024   Created by Hugh.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service