Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Why is Crouch End high street so much cleaner than Green Lanes?
I recently noted that people queue for buses in Crouch End but not Green Lanes and wondered why.
On my most recent excursion I noticed how markedly cleaner Crouch End is on a Saturday morning compared to Green Lanes and again wondered why?
Both are very busy on a Saturday morning (Crouch End arguably more so). Both have lots of cafes and restaurants. Both have bus stops.
But Green Lanes is littered with rubbish.
Why is it so?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mark Williams on
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I would argue that bags of rubbish left on the street do make an area feel dirty. Even when everything works exactly as intended, most people would rather not step over bags of waste on the pavement.
In practice, things often do not work as intended. Collections are missed, time windows are ignored, bags get torn, and a single non-compliant household or business can affect everyone. There is no real capacity control, extra items are added to the piles, vermin get into bags, and people in difficult circumstances are scavenging.
I think bagged collections must persist not because they are a good solution, but because they are the least bad option in the absence of significant capital investment. Other European cities with similar space constraints have much better solutions.
The streetscape with everything working as intended:I agree, Fix My Street is great. I often go running around the neighbourhood, and if I can be bothered, I will report problems I see using that app on my runs. I've always been pleasantly surprised at how quickly my reports are acted on. Last week I reported two issues on my street, and both were fixed the very next day.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Mark, sorry for the delay replying to you, but I was unsure of the map borders. I can no longer find my old maps, so I'm doing my best with Google Streetview. My eyes are unreliable but I think your photo of the bus shelter next to bagged-waste-waiting-for-collection is on the Hackney side of the road. The street behind it, Rowley Gardens, is shown by Google as in Hackney.
Of course a bunch of bags shouldn't be sitting on the pavement. But does it look dirty?
I would have said it looks like lugging work about to happen. We're not terribly pristine animals are we?I don't know if you ever came across a Hungarian named George Mikes. (Pronounced Meekesh.) He had trouble getting rid of a sticky sweet wrapper in Switzerland and dropped it out of a tram. He claimed to be presented with the wrapper, washed and ironed, sealed in a cellophane bag, as he left the Swiss plane.
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Mark, if some sealed bags on the pavement make it feel dirty to you, we can pretend that the world is ultra clean and as sparkling shiny as a surgeons knife.
But it isn't.Years ago we went to an exhibition in the Welcome Collection, Euston Road. The show and the book it was paired with was called "Dirt: The Filthy Reality of Everyday Life." It was also described "As our very last taboo."
We ignored the taboo and paid with our own money. Old fashioned paper notes. Remember those? Which loads of other people had already touched. They gave us change in coins. Bits of metal with fingerprints all over them, would you believe it? Dunno how we made it home. What with breathing the air pollution along Euston Road and then sitting with tube crowds while partaking lung air on the tube home.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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The issue is not leaving rubbish out, it is the speed with which it is removed. In hot countries, they don't have the luxury of leaving it for a day or two because the smell would be horrendous. Rubbish is cleared daily, sometimes twice a day. People put their rubbish in big dumpsters, or, in Spain, I've seen underground receptacles. They don't have personal bins.
Yet, in this country, similar solutions attract problems of dumping and fly tipping. Possibly because the bins aren't emptied as regularly. Possibly because these countries attract a lot of tourists and there are incentives for keeping the place clean and tidy. Maybe its the London psyche - it's always struggled with dirt and waste - compared to beautiful Edinburgh and Cardiff, London is mucky. As you know, I've contemplated these issues for years, I'm not any nearer an explanation.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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It's the people. We're not blank slates.
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Yes, I would say it looks dirty. These things are subjective, it's true, but I think many people would agree. However, as I mentioned earlier, this example is that everything is working as expected. Very often, the waste is not contained in the bags.
I’m not particularly germophobic, by the way. If anything, I might have a much higher threshold than most, having become accustomed to living in London and this area specifically.After work today, if I have time and to satisfy my own curiosity, I'll head up Green Lanes, loop round to Crouch End and back.
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I managed to get out yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to find Harringay Green Lanes cleaner than Crouch End. Of course, this isn't the most scientific experiment, and it might be that I went just after the cleaning schedule. It got me thinking if we're more likely to notice problems in areas we frequent simply because we're exposed to them more.
My route took me up Harringay Green Lanes -> Turnpike Lane -> Crouch End -> Stroud Green Road and back to Harringay Green Lanes.
The worst area was Turnpike Lane, followed by Stroud Green Road, then Crouch End and the surprising (to me) winner, Haringay Green Lanes.
I observed 4 people littering, 2 in Haringey Green Lanes, 1 in Crouch End and 1 in Stroud Green Road.
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Permalink Reply by Cynthia Brown on
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Import the third world, become the third world.
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Start as simply the amazing human being you are, Cynthia.
Know and become known by other humans. But if you can, turn down the job of their hunter or jailer, or worse.
If there is a God, we are all humans in the eyes of God.
With or without a God we all have the possibility to build and, if we have a little luck and try hard - may build and sustain loving and understanding friendships and close relationships.
Children hold hands. Grown up, we can shake the hands of others.
Sometimes we smile and hug. Sometimes we kiss.
Why always focus on building fences and walls?
Cynthia please discard false notions of a Third World. They told you lies. You've seen video of how the Earth travels on its own. In whatever time each of us has left, there is Only One World.
There would be enough food and water and places to live if we decide it should be so. If hate is an essential ingredient of our diet then let's keep to no more than a trace.
Music surely needs no rationing. Nor does art. Nor does laughter. Nor does true story telling. And many other wonderful things.
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