Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Why is Crouch End high street so much cleaner than Green Lanes?
I recently noted that people queue for buses in Crouch End but not Green Lanes and wondered why.
On my most recent excursion I noticed how markedly cleaner Crouch End is on a Saturday morning compared to Green Lanes and again wondered why?
Both are very busy on a Saturday morning (Crouch End arguably more so). Both have lots of cafes and restaurants. Both have bus stops.
But Green Lanes is littered with rubbish.
Why is it so?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz
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@johnmcmullan - a disingenuous question as you know. Japan has never been keen on any new arrivals be they workers or refugees. They also “sent me back” after two years as well. Very few foreigners are “encouraged to stay”. So, no not really. There’s not much difference because Japan doesn’t encourage immigration. Of course they have a demographic ticking timebomb which means that they may cease to function as a successful economic society in a few decades.
But this has nothing to do with litter and is taking us off track. Japan was used as an example of a clean society and it undoubtedly is. Extrapolating to this country is pointless - we are two very different countries with very different histories - and is leading us very far from the point.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan
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The gist of this conversation is "are some people more likely to litter than others and if so, why?". I referred to the two sides of the argument as being about the blank slate. Nobody batted an eyelid when Japan was introduced to the conversation.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton
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John, let me suggest that you may have narrowed down "this conversation" within a corset of your own thinking.
You and I haven't viewed one anther's eyelids for I don't know how many years.
Most of the people named in this thread I've never met. Most have chosen not to post a photo of their face - batted or unbatted eyelids. Many choose to hide their family names. Or perhaps invent a name.
I ask you to have the grace at least to make some allowance for Liz Ixer's two years working in Japan.Please try for size the notion that there is no simple single gist of this conversation. Partly because there's no actual conversation disclosed by this procession of comments.
What's the point of tossing in a sentence from Tolkien's pointless hundreds - or was it thousands - of pages. Did Zena ever tell you the true and utterly ridiculous comic story of watching Tolkien receiving an honorary degree in a babble of Latin? Before a small select balcony audience who may have understood not a word.
What has Tolkien to do with dumped waste? That if you find copies of Lord of the Rings dumped on Green Lanes it belongs in a recycling bin.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mahoney
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John is correct. That's what the thread is about.
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Brian Mahoney tells John McMullan he is correct. Being in line with Brian's headline is what this thread is about agree Brian and John.
Two blokes in agreement. How reassuring. Total freedom to make the same choices. And think the same way. All they need now is a wall between them and others. And some armed guards to prevent anyone who thinks differently settling nearby.
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Thankfully there are also artist storytellers like the Israeli David Grossman, He wrote a children's book called "The Hug"; about a boy who walks and sits one afternoon in a field with his mother. She tells him he is unique. This makes him feel lonely. They hug one another tight."Now I'm not alone", he thinks to himself.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
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GIST.
The case I brought to the Information Rights Tribunal began with the Information Commissioner (ICO) but in 2025-26 it has metamorphosed, vis a vis the local council and their conduct in that case.
In 2024, the ICO & LBH were ordered to provide a "gist" of certain information.
They provided a gist they described as "high level" (i.e. lacking all detail) that was all but worthless (I think I described it to the Judge as a jest).
In my view, John's gist of "this conversation" was not unreasonable and certainly more useful than that "gist" in another context.
In another guise, the case continues.
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I was just reading a post on Crouchendonline about how dirty Crouch End is compared to Hampstead.
Peasants!
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Ozbawn, the solution to these problems is to expand the boundaries of more "desirable" areas.
As you suggest, Hampstead is an excellent model. There's a South Hampstead and a West Hampstead. When I lived in nearby Kilburn it appeared to be shrinking fast as bits of it were gobbled up by would-be posher places. If Harringay is linked to a desired North East Hampstead it would be going places while firmly standing pat.Plainly we need to seek the assistance of estate agents to rename many parts of existing boroughs so we can all look down on various other places and on people who are innately compelled to drop their aitches as well as higher or lower classes of waste / litter / trash / garbage . It will take a lot of work by experts before all this material is cleaned, tidied-up, catalogued; finding its appropriate auction house. Switching magically from undesirable rubbish to Antique roadshow prized objects.
I was born in Edgware. Originally a Saxon settlement along the Roman Watling Street, a medieval pilgrim route. My mother owned the detective book: Lord Edgware Dies. I've no idea what became of her copy.
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Indeed. We could also take the opositive approach. Rename Harringay as South West Tottenham. The council would then adjust the waste management spend downwards accordingly as we'd no longer be able to justify our expectations about having a clean environment.
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Too much like real life. The typical Marxist approach is to tear down excellence so we all have to muddle around at the lowest level be that streetscapes, cultural pursuits or schools. It would be better to see why areas like Crouch End are so much cleaner (although we do already know) and see how the same behaviours can be encouraged elsewhere.
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Permalink Reply by KP
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Yep I completely agree. It shouldn't be about the race to the bottom. But any attempt at improvement will be shouted down here as "gentrification"
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KP - On Harringay Online website. where is there: "shouting down" , please?
I type words and letters which are silent. I don't remember posting any audio files.
But if I did it wouldn't be someone shouting or shouting-down someone else.
Has anyone done this?
Or maybe you mean that some people have strong and passionate views? Nothing wrong with that. But it would be silly of me to try to shout or bully people into agreement. It just doesn't work.Anyway, I'm genuinely puzzled by the comment you've just posted.
Also, it might help if you gave a couple of concrete examples of what you mean by e.g. "race to the bottom".
I confess that I've never been interested in getting to the top. I liked being with people I liked. And some of the most dislikeable people have been those desperate to make their way, claw their way, cheat their way, bullshit their way, to the top. Not always, of course.
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