Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Why can't we open a window on the hottest day of the year Haringey Council? Air pollution w/c 18 May
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tim Gent
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The levels of pollution are nuts. Very much hoping our new councillors can step up and take this on
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Permalink Reply by D Jones
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maybe email your local new green councillor, and if they can be bothered, they might even reply (we live in hope)
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Yep will be doing that. Sounds like positive signs so far with them engaging, so fingers crossed it leads to real improvements
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Hi Alice,
First off, I want to frame my response as someone who entirely agrees that there is a pollution problem in the area. Your data is clearly showing the background level of PM2.5 particles to be averaging higher than health organisation recommend, and this needs to be dealt with. Furthermore, thank you for your consistency is recording this data, and various action you have taken, it really has help highlight the issue.
I would like to give three points of opinion.
The first, as a born and breed Londoner, I studied, read, watched the demise of areas such as Camden and Notting Hill, due to the result of patterns not too dissimilar to the objections you put forward.
The pattern follows that an area becomes a magnet due to it vibrate culture/nightlife/street markets, luring folk into the area to become part of the scene, and others due to the relatively cheap house prices. Years later the same residence have now matured, become concerned in return of their investment in their house, and likely have started a family, so rightfully their focus in life changed.
The once fun market now considered a rat problem. The favourite vibrate club has one too many drunken cheers late one night and wake the residents kids. The kebab shop, once the resident's staple go-to after a good night out, now just considered a populating stinky mess. With good intentions, the same residents who once enjoyed the area's vibe start to put pressure on the council to do something about the very same things that drew them to the area. These campaign become the demise of areas as the council's begin strict rules, curfews, and fines, among other actions. Gradually, businesses close up and move on, eventually, leaving quite a hollow shell behind. Green Lanes is vibrant, and unique, and I would hate to lose it to a heavy-handed council decision.
The second, is that as much as your data does clearly show spikes toward the evening, this does not mean it is grill smoke. Correlation and causation are often mixed up. I would have no doubt that the number of Turkish grills is in some way contributing to the area's pollution, but I just do not see your data pointing to it be the primary causation.In some of your previous sets of data, I have seen spikes in the early hours of the morning, this is clearly not grill smoke. Most of your data generally peaks just after evening rush hours, and we all know Green Lanes' traffic can be chaos at the time, and particles take time to build up. The folk who enjoy the high street's restaurants frequently drive into the area to do so, this can be seen in the fact parking is the worst between 7pm and 10pm as the diners' cars fill up the side streets.
Focusing on this latest data set, we see a massive spike at the weekend in the afternoon/evening. PM2.5 need a consistent wind speed of over 4.5mph to be moved it on. Overlapping wind speed and your data, it's seen that the wind drops and then the data spikes. So, we are seeing a build up of pollution over hours that is not being cleared away. That build up spiked at 8pm, not emissions spiked at that time. 8pm is quite early for a Mediterranean dining schedule.
If there were higher wind speeds and a spike in particulates, then we could say emissions at that moment were high. Even then, there is a chance local populates are being topped up by the wind carrying particles from the surrounding areas.I would say for more clarity in your data, atmospheric pressure, wind speed and direction need tracking. Then, when there is a spike, match it with the weather to build a picture. For example, if there is an uncharacteristic early morning spike, track the wind direction, this might form a picture of populates being brought into the area from a certain direction.
The third, which is linked to the second, is that by making your argument about the grills, it is only weakening it. I'm no statistician, but I see the grill argument as flawed, which means so will the council or any expert they bring in. To me, the primary cause is still from the rubber and brake wear that occurs in peak traffic, which then lingers in the area. Secondary causes might be things like factory emissions carried into the area causing the early morning spikes, and grill smoke contributing to the evening highs.
Again, I think there is clear evidence of a population problem, and that there needs to be action taken to resolve it. I think you are fighting a good fight trying to deal with it. However, maybe downgrade the grill smoke to a contributing factor, not the primary argument, and have the council do their job in finding and dealing with the cause.
Thank you for your hard work on this, and these are on my opinions.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest
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@mr cf.
You make some good points here, a couple of thoughts. I am a Pemberton resident. I should say I have been here 23 years, and the restaurant trade has grown tremendously over that time, it was originally a few single fronted places. Not what we see today, which is giving rise to a now constant, and increasingly difficult issue. I believe three more grills are soon to open on Green Lanes for example.
First- we are not suggesting for a second any of the restaurants need to close- I like kebabs as much as the next person. Our approach is more focused on appropriately characterising and quantifying the problem (as you rightly suggest is needed) and then find appropriate technical solutions. For example, if it is restaurant emissions let's look at technology like electrostatic precipitation technology, as is done effectively in industry and has been for 50 years. Part of the issue is that the current regulation around kitchen grills does not anticipate large clusters of very big (triple fronted) restaurants clustered in one small location. So, today they may be compliant, but collectively a problem is created.
Second- I and others have been trying to engage with the council to invest the intellectual bandwidth into assessing this problem to do exactly what you suggest in properly monitoring the problem, and take into account all variables, wind, time of day, location of monitors, road traffic etc. Our previous councilors Zena and Anna were working hard to get officers to take the issue seriously and empirically assess the situation so an evidence based approach could be taken. Over the past decade of trying we have zero result. Its only with the pressure Alice is putting on people as a result of monitors from (I believe from Breath London) having been installed at the bottom of Pemby that we even have the real data we have showing there is a real problem. We really hope our new Green Councilors can carry on this work and get something done!
Our Citizen Science approach is not enough, and frankly we do not have the means to drive change, only the council can do this.
As a final thought, you are right about causality- but when I smell chicken I think Kebabs. Anyone who has experience the kind of smog we are seeing will really quickly come to the same conclusions. You are welcome to message me, and when we have an episode I will give you a call and you can come check it out yourself, don't take my word for it.
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