Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
What's wrong with the new Spurs Stadium?
CABE have pronounced themselves 'disappointed' with it, English Heritage find it 'incoherent and awkward'.
Spurs fan and architecture critic Rowan Moore discuss the problems with the design of Spurs' new stadium in today's Standard.
Acknowledging that, most football fans would watch their team in stadia built out of plastic drain sections and reused scrap metal, which is what, indeed,
many of them look like.
Spurs fan and architecture critic Rowan Moore discuss the problems with the design of Spurs' new stadium in today's Standard.
Acknowledging that, most football fans would watch their team in stadia built out of plastic drain sections and reused scrap metal, which is what, indeed,
many of them look like.
...he poses the question, given the chance to create a wholly new stadium development, why wouldn't you want it to be as classy and skilful as the best players?
Is the stadium an architectural turkey?
Does it matter as long as it brings regeneration to the area?
Tags for Forum Posts: Spurs, architecture, new stadium
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Is the stadium an architectural turkey?
Does it matter as long as it brings regeneration to the area?
Show me an architectural turkey that has ever brought anything positive to an area. You really get the impression that they think anything positive that the stadium could bring to the area should be paid for by the council (Arsenal fans to a man). Peasants.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Can't be any worse than what's already there..
BUT I do wonder what a dog's-eye view would look like rather than a compilmentary birds-eye view-- how a regular N17 resident would actually experience the building.. sort of similar to standing next to an Airbus A380 or the more probably the Enterprise..
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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To be fair Spurs do a lot for the surrounding area and the folk in it, even I think helping out 'ninth division' Haringey Borough when they went out of business.
They must be congratulated on being able to stay at their historical home when, as is often the case to move to a bigger, cheaper more inconvenient site out of town with little pleasure for the travelling fans as so many clubs have done. It is paramount that clubs with a connection to the surrounding area stay in the area and help make it prosper. The role that football clubs have in our communities now is massive via local schools, police run initiatives, providing affordable housing, providing leisure and educational facilities as well as a sense of identity and pride in your area. My club even have a Surestart facility in the main stand, something that otherwise wouldn't have been thought about before.
Architecturally, the new ground (don't like stadia, makes it sound impersonal) is nothing special, but the space around it can and hopefully will boost the community surrounding it. I have seen far far worse in the double decade of Ikea Flat pack stadium building since the Taylor report. Historically, great that it's staying in the vicinity and of course within the FA guidelines when it comes to moving unlike Franchise FC aka MK Dons. I am a disappointed that the “Red Brick Building' where it all started, will be demolished to make way.
Any green footballers supporters out there may be interested in this gem a true inspiration for football (and other sport) grounds everywhere.
Stephen, shall be in Berlin (and Hamburg) soon to watch Tebe Berlin and hopefully Herta, then on to Hamburg to watch St Pauli and Altona. Four games in four days, lush!
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Hope the weather cheers up for you.. we've had seven weeks of snow now.. it's currently a lot warmer around 0°C today - twenty degrees warmer than last week,..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/isarsteve/sets/72157623267750658/show/
Hertha are down in the doldrums at the moment and likely to relegated next season.. but I bet St Pauli will warm the cockles of your punk heart
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I have been to St Pauli before two years ago and have been interested in them for around thirteen years. They are a fantastic prototype for my perfect football club with it's links the the anti fascist movement, punks, and anything left leaning. Also check out Hamburgs Altona 93, a similar lefty prototype but non league and mulled wine served at games! Pauli have a massive global cult following running into millions of supporters. There is a UK St Pauli site
German football, far right aside is great and brilliant value for money unlike the overpaid buggers here.
Sorry to steer this off topic Liz.
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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On the theme of football: Have you ever wondered what it's like to own a football club ? I do and here's the link. http://www.myfootballclub.co.uk/ it's true democracy in that you get to vote on every single important decision. Can you imagine arsenal or Man U emailing you to ask which squad to pick ?
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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B2, it is a truth universally acknowledged that no footie fan wants to discuss architecture when they can discuss football
However, I was of course trying to promote a discussion about the stadium's architecture (and the effects that developments like this have in general on an area).
The basic design of a stadium hasn't changed since the Colosseum (let's not pretend this is a ground, a ground is one of those small charming places in the centres of communities with entrances tucked away between houses - this is a stadium) but how they fit in the community and how they can be an asset certainly has. It sounds like its going to be an exciting place with parks and ice rinks and what not
Yet I thought it was a good question posed by the chap in the article. Are they missing a chance to create something that is outstanding architecturally?
I know (from personal experience) that Tottenham provide lots of encouragement for children's football and sports development in general. I am impressed in particular at their championing of girls football but the presence of a football stadium impacts on communities whether they are fans or not (see Alan's flickr blog on parking for example) and so I think its right to make high demands of quality of design and a respect for the built environment around them, given the money, power an influence the big clubs have. Their ground is N17's daily landscape so they have a duty to make it a joy to contemplate everyday by creating a beautiful building.
This is a golden opportunity to do something outstanding and I'm not sure they are going to do that. We'll see. For all sorts of reasons this is an interesting story to follow (but i won't bore you with my reasons for being interested :))
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Sorry about going offtrack Liz.
The small photo in the article isn't enough to see what the design is about. Are there links to see the plan in more detail ? I am very interested because i used to live next to the ground/stadium and so understand what it's like to be in a very deprived area which is 'invaded' on matchdays. You should see the fights over parking spaces.
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Permalink Reply by Caroline on
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Liz, have you had a chance to walk around the Emirates? Not the Stadium itself, which I have very little interest in, but rather the surrounding area, the new housing, and the Gillespie Road stadium itself, the refurbishment of which is just reaching completion.
I'm having trouble remembering all of the details, but as I remember it, the Emirates was built on the site of Camden & Islington waste centre and as part of the planning obligation placed upon Arsenal they had to resite the waste centre at the Caledonian Road end of Hornsey Street. This then led to the widescale regeneration of Hornsey Street with social housing, housing for sale, shared ownership and housing for students and Islington hospital workers stretching along a whole series of sites between the Holloway Road and Caledonian Road railway bridges. There was also new housing and offices along Drayton Park and to the immediate north of the stadium, and of course the revelopment of the old stadium to create 'luxury' flats. Almost 600 new homes in total I think.
Now, we could argue about the architectural quality of much of this forever and a day, and I would probably be among the first to start condemning it (although I think that the new waste centre is a thing of great loveliness). What really interests me is whether any of this redevelopment has 'regenerated' the bottom end of Holloway Road. It's an interesting area. The area around and to the south of Holloway Road tube station has always been very run down, in marked contrast to Upper Street which it is very close to. In fact the tone of the area seems to change very abruptly at Highbury and Islington tube. One would have thought that if ever an area was ripe for regeneration 'lower' Holloway was it. But has it happened? And if not is there something that the developers of Tottenham need to learn?
I agree with the comments in the ES that the Emirates is cold and, on paper, I find it a little bleak. However, I sometimes walk to Waitrose and when I do that is the way I go. There are always loads of people milling around the stadium and actually it's a nice place to walk, so maybe there is something to be learned from that too.
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In fact the tone of the area seems to change very abruptly at Highbury and Islington tube.
It's not an abrupt change at all. Upper Street is a thin veneer over what is actually a pretty nasty place. It gets slowly less veneered as you move up to Highbury Corner though, I agree. From Highbury Field through to Stoke Newington is a better case and point although no-one's needed to fix that area up, ever....
Again Haringey's construction as a geographical entity has screwed it. The majority of the council's tax take comes from the Arsenal fans of Crouch End, Highgate and Muswell Hill. Think how satisfied you would feel as a Tottenham Hotspur patriot to hold Haringey's Labour council to ransom by threatening to put a nasty space ship thing on their deprived high street unless they "contribute".
Imagine shopping at iceland on the high street with your 3 small kids and their father's run off with your best friend and you're buying a scratchie and then you look up and see that bloody thing staring you in the face. It's not going to contribute to your happiness, is it? At least the Emirates is "out of the way". This one needs to be more than a stadium.
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Guilty as charged and as a self confessed stadium geek with interests on architecture and cultural grounds, I think this is above average architecturally, but probably well above average of the architecture of functionality. I have had articles published in Groundtastic football grounds magazine and have visited 74 of the 92 league grounds in the UK, hundreds more overseas and non league – Sad fecker, yes, but feel well placed to comment.
I think that in such a tight area, you cannot be overpowering like you can say in the new Wembley, proposed Barcelona 'stadium' Munichs Allianz Arena. A revolutionary ground was Sampdoria's, built for the 1990 Italian world cup built in a tight area in Genoa but not too overpowering as it has to work with it’s historical surroundings, or Borussia Dortmund's multi terrace come seating stand, massively functional and safe. Architecture of football grounds nowadays encompass more than aesthetic pleasure, urban designers need to address other needs as much as making it look pretty. A new ground that seems to be nestling into its local surroundings (amongst local opposition) is Brighton's.
You can see by these images how they propose to build the new ground around the current one.
The sightlines nowadays in modern grounds are always un-interrupted .
Footballers use to be part of their communities and often worked in the surrounding areas in the mills, docks, potteries, pits etc – there was a connection to a common fan. Today’s game is very different but the club can still play a huge part in its community.
Stadia is a concrete bowl, circular and doesn’t resemble today stadiums or grounds, spurred on by the medias use of the word and the new allocation of football supporters since it’s became more fashionable in the late eighties. In fact the football grounds of yesteryear were more akin to Roman stadia with the huge concrete banks of terracing often surrounding the whole pitch.
James, Ebbslfleet or should I say Graveslend and Northfleet is a short term marketing gimmick and not very substainable, very nice concept though. How often do you go?
More reading on stadiums:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/
http://www.europlan-online.de/
Populous (HOK Sport), the leading architecture company in sporting ...
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Everyone geeks out about something...you think when I posted this, I didn't know that your specialist subject was football grounds of the world?! :O
Really interesting stuff which has made me think even harder about this whole issue.
I had to write an essay once on the Colosseum's similarity to Wembley stadium (the old one) but it was strictly first year undergrad stuff, certainly not up to your knowledge level on the topic, professor
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