Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
We need a Traffic and Parking Review in Harringay
Harringay desperately needs a traffic and parking review, we have got to the stage that the amount of traffic coming down the ladder roads really needs to be dealt with. I will be writing to officers and the lead member because we can no longer I believe sustain this inequitable distribution of traffic in the area.
This morning on my way to work I witnessed some amazing community action and spirit from businesses on Green Lanes. An elderly man was hit by a car turning right out of Pemberton Rd. Whilst I didn't see the accident I did see the shop owners come out and one young woman from the jewellers recorded the driver who we initially thought had abandoned his car and fled the scene. The driver did come back as he had gone to get help, however the locals were not taking any chances. I looked like a leg injury and the police assured me he would be ok, however it could have been far worse.
I am receiving emails from residents angry at the level of traffic coming down their roads which is impacting on their houses and quality of lives. I would really be interested to hear more residents views on the issue.
Emine
Harringay Ward Councillor
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Stanton
To: Stuart.mcNamara@haringey.gov.uk
Cc: emine.ibrahim@haringey.gov.uk
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 12:59 AM
Subject: Please see John McMullan's suggestion on Harringay OnlineHi Stuart,
Please see John McMullan's suggestion in a comment on Harringay Online about someone who constructed a vehicle counting machine. (Link given.)
It seems a good test of the new policy of encouraging people with talent "who go the extra mile for their neighbours" and who are willing to come together with their neighbours to help "solve local challenges and to support one another".
I have no idea whether the person concerned is the offspring of a rockstar or a famous starchitect. So there may not be a photo-op for the Dear Leader. But hey, you don't need all that nonsense.
Wishing you a peaceful, calm Christmas from Zena and me.
All the best,
Alan
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I'm the traffic counter guy, made from a modified version of this one from a Moscow university. With the help a few other locals we've done counts at many places around Harringay. We've two counters now, they cost about £30 each and can collect a couple of weeks data off a set of batteries. We did talk about doing a more comprehensive set of counts across all of Harringay but haven't got to doing that yet.
This is one day on my street, clearly showing how the traffic flows west to east in the afternoon, with little spikes at the NHP school drop off times in the morning and afternoon:
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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Hi Ant
Is there anyway of looking further into the data as to what kinds of traffic this was (segmented into car, van, lorry - perhaps by weight if by automation)? I think this would be really powerful information.
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It would be interesting to know exactly what happened when the Gardens bollards were installed. They didn't do any traffic counts on the Ladder when that happened so we can only make guesses - so i guess it would have been something like this:Before, through traffic used the many Gardens and Ladder roads:Then the bollards blocked the Gardens so the vast majority of the traffic went on just Warham and Hewitt:Now after the Hewitt No Right Turn most of that traffic goes on Pemberton and Beresford:So what is best? I can't help wondering if the middle of those might not have been best, with the traffic restricted to the minimum areas and coming in and out as simply as possible. Sad for Warham and Hewitt of course but better for most other roads. I suppose not eveyone will agree with that, particularly Hewitt and Warham residents!The point i'm trying to make is even if we did get a holistic traffic survey of the area who / how is it decided what the goals are? Spreading traffic evenly over all the roads? Reducing traffic on most roads at the expense of a few others getting most traffic? Priorizing roads with schools and parks for traffic reduction?
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This is a really great point. I would personally argue that measurable goals are limited by the amount of data that is available and must be defined into short, medium and long-term strategies.
So is this a solution for the present or future? What are the long-term patterns of traffic on the ladder? Is traffic increasing or decreasing? Why is this? What measurable aims can we resolve? And what is the holistic economics of this (not accountancy btw!) - this means air pollution, well-being, etc etc?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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It wasn't quite like that pre-bollards Ant. We've lived on Warham since 1984 and back in the day all the Garden Roads worked traffic on to Green Lanes. None of the Ladder roads were one way so there was pretty much a free for all to either cross GL to the Ladder and along Wightman or to continue down GL. The traffic coming out of the Gardens in the morning was horrendous. The whole of GL just stood still. Half an hour to get from Salisbury Road to Manor House on a bus was common. In the evenings it all reversed.
The secret is Green Lanes. If it becomes a free moving road, the temptation to use either the Gardens or the Ladder lessens. A red route was planned, either late 80s or early 90s and there were exhibitions and consultations held in vacant shops on GL. There was a lot of local resident support for it but ultimately it was dropped after lobbying by local businesses.
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Ok we could also add another picture from even earlier when the Ladder rungs weren't oneway, but you say like that it didn't work so well.
Here's another picture of what it might be like if Green Lanes was a red route:
Would just making Green Lanes a red route would be enough to get the traffic doing that? Green Lanes from the railway bridge to Endymion is already really congested and already doesn't have parking so the red route wont help there so much and traffic would probably still take the shortcut via Wightman and one of the Ladder rungs.
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You're right of course that the side roads would need protection or someway of making them less attractive to through traffic . Or reverse the one way on Warham to down so the Salisbury road traffic doesn't simply fly up to Wightman
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Not very happy for Mattison and Seymour though, and the traffic would have to then be turning right across Green Lanes in two places causing extra congestion, and Warham would then start to get a lot of that old Hewitt traffic heading towards St Anns (so good for Pemberton).
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OK big spikes shoot up from the road if you don't have a residents' parking permit!
I suppose that this goes to prove the need for a whole area solution rather than tinkering, which is what the situation feels like at the moment. Lots of good ideas from people on this site. A few A3 maps and coloured pens anyone?
What the map of car ownership provided by DS below does seem to indicate is that much of the traffic is not local as nearby car ownership is so low.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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The crappy lights by the Arena probably cause most of the congestion from there to Manor House.
Hands up, I drive through Harringay, about once a month these days though lots more in the past. If I guess at a jam at Endymion Rd exit, I'll opt for Wightman Rd. My philosophy of driving/navigating is always to use the biggest possible road, because it's usually quicker, and is less of an imposition on those who live on the smaller roads. But as I know the rat-runs, I do sometimes use them. Since the Tottnm one-way has gone, I actually opt for 7Sisters Rd more often these days except at rush-hours when 7Sisters High Rd jams up.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Bus journeys were fixed by the bus lane (Thanks LCSP!) not the gating of the gardens. Isn't it obvious that the solution is to gate either end of Wightman or do nothing at all?
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