Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Wards Corner temporary setback
Grainger plan voted through.
Five-four, party lines.
Wish I'd bet my house on it, then I could afford to leave. Don't want to live here any more if those are the people who have power over me.
Tags for Forum Posts: seven sisters, ward's corner
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Candy on
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We know they were told to vote this plan through by a member of the GLA task force. That is why there were extra members on the planning committee. We were told it was a done deal by a councillor long before the meeting.We were told by a GLA task force member that Boris told Grainger to get the new plan in quickly. I am basing my statements on facts.
I would also like just one councillor or council officer to give me sound and well argued reasons why we have to have the Grainger plan. I have tried several, and so far get nothing in reply. Maybe, Alan, you could help.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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As far as I recall, Candy, the composition of the Planning Committee was altered to reflect the fact that two LibDem councillors are now sitting as independents. I assume this would have been discussed between the two chief whips; Pat Egan for Labour and Monica Whyte for the LibDems. But you don't have to believe me or speculate: just ask them.
In the Labour Group, each year before the Council Annual Meeting Pat Egan emails councillors asking which committees, panels etc they'd like to serve on. With the two assistant whips he sorts out who is on what, to make sure tasks are covered with - hopefully - some continuity and experience. Also as I recall, this year there may have been more volunteers for the Planning Committee.
I don't know how the LibDems manage the process but I'd be surprised if it was very different. Despite the pugnacious sounding name, most of the time whips are basically business managers.
You challenge me to shed more light on the process. I can't. But it seems you can. You cite statements from unnamed people about "a done deal". And what a Greater London Task Force member told you about what Boris Johnson told Graingers.
As you may know, I strongly dislike having a "Task Force" which meets in secret to make decisions about Tottenham. I'm equally opposed to the culture of secrecy and exclusiveness fostered by Claire Kober.
So why replicate this secrecy? Please share publicly the evidence for what you know. Let's begin with the names of the anonymous people? What did they actually say? When, where and in what context? Got any notes, or audio files? Please publish them.
(Labour Councillor Tottenham Hale)
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Alan you make the process sound so reasonable ... if you ignore the giant gift from the council of tax cash (£2,000,000?) to the property developer, well before it reached any Planning Committee.
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This is how it needs to work, Clive. In the ancient story the blind men share and pool the facts they've gathered from approaching the elephant from different angles.
Alternatively they can stand around shouting at one another.
"It's a tree trunk!"
"No, I insist. It's a snake!"
"You fools! Don't you know the tip of a sword when you feel it?"
Or perhaps they go off in different directions and form separate groups. Echo chambers of like-minded people committed to interpreting all known facts in the light of the Tree Trunk Legend; the Snake Saga; or the Sword Epic.
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Alan this is a charming story - and I think I know where the £2,000,000 donation to Grainger fits in.
One of the blind men has followed behind the elephant and first he steps in some bucket-sized droppings. Then he can't help but notice the smell.
An elderly lady neighbour gave me this advice about the council: "follow the money".
In this vein, can I ask about the £2,000,000 given from one of London's poorer Boroughs, to one of Britain's biggest listed property conglomerates? The trouble is, it still doesn't smell right.
Is this transfer normal?
Is it lawful?
And finally, is it desirable?
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You know perfectly well about the New Deal for Communities, Clive. But never mind. On Wards Corner you're obviously happier in your echo chamber.
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Still no one has answered my question. What are the reasons, why we have to have this Grainger development? Will someone please give me one sound reason, before it is too late?
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Alan, re New Deal (your comment #8 does not have a Reply link):
Clive may already know the extraordinary tale, but please take this opportunity to tell me, and perhaps the other 1183 vistors to this thread to date, a little more of who, what, when, how and most intriguingly why, the New Deal for Communities came to donate £1.5m plus at least £0.5m of underpriced houses, to Grainger before they had even gone to the Planning Committee? I came to WCC late in the day and missed any early public meetings etc that discussed this, and I understand the minutes are nowhere to be found. There was talk at their final meeting that they would publish a book or pamphlet about their achievements but no sign of that yet. I am agog.
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I assumed, Candy, that your questions are rhetorical. That they mean you are utterly firm in your condemnation of Grainger's Ward's Corner development proposal and cannot think of a single reason in its favour. If that's the case, then obviously neither I nor anyone else can give you an "answer". At least not in the sense of offering some reasons which might persuade you otherwise.
But please let me repeat my own questions to you. About the GLA person who told you what Boris Johnson told Grainger. About the unnamed person who said this was "a done deal". Who, what, when, where, and in what context?
Were these comments offered as hard information (e.g. "I was at the meeting/have seen the correspondence; they've already stitched this up.) Or as a speculative opinion. (e.g. "I don't think you're going to win this. I'm not hearing much sympathy with your views.")
Why do I think this is important? Because comment after comment seems to attack the integrity, motivation, good faith, professional or local knowledge, and respect for evidence of anyone who thinks or says the Grainger scheme may have something even slightly positive to offer.
I've listened to the passion and the anger. And sometimes got angry myself. (The Ward's Corner Coalition are not the only people who care deeply about and want the best for Tottenham.) And over the years on a range of Haringey topics I've done my share of attacking the lack of integrity of opponents. But now on this, I'd like some solid facts, please.
(Labour councillor Tottenham Hale ward)
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Permalink Reply by William Booth on
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I don't read it as a rhetorical question. Like I said before, it's assumed that any housing is a solution to a housing crisis, but that's just not true. These will be commuter flats for people who come to live near the tube station for a few years and probably won't put down any roots in the area while shopping in Tesco or Sainsburys. Not good for either the housing crisis (for current Tottenham folk) or for local businesses. What they are transparently good for is some quick and easy council tax.
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Thanks, William. I accept your critique about the lack of social housing in the proposed development. So I'm still curious to get your response to my question: whether you'd support the Grainger development if the social housing component had been, say, 100%? Or even 50%?
Have you any evidence for your gibe about "quick and easy Council Tax". Or was that just another ad hominem attack on the Council's motivation? Anyway, if people live here or run businesses in Haringey for a few years, why shouldn't they pay Council Tax and Business Rate? Or do you think that like Spurs or Lea Valley Estates with section 106 Planning Gain agreements, they should have their legal obligations lifted or rescheduled? Unlike the way the Council chases residents and small businesses with court orders and bailiffs?
Your comment about people staying a few years in commuter flats may or may not turn out to be accurate. But we don't live in some isolated Ruritanian valley, where people still retell stories about the day Hannibal came through with his elephants. We live in London, the capital and a cosmopolitan world city. People do come from everywhere. They come maybe, to learn; or to do business. Or perhaps quit a boring place for somewhere new and exciting. And of course people are sometimes forced to leave places which are dangerous. People stay; others return or move on. Commuters? Yes, there are residents who get up very early and commute to jobs in the centre of town - including the cleaners on early buses.
And many of these "commuters" join local organisations and take part in community activity. If only for a few years they stay. (Or sometimes, are allowed to stay.)
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