Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Three trial LTNs recommended to become permanent
Just looking at the agenda pack for next week's council meeting the recommendation is that all three are made permanent.
https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/mgChooseDocPack.aspx?ID=10862
It's all pretty dense, this is a ChatGPT summary of it I've seen which seems to tally with the bits I've looked through but no guaranteeing how accurate it is:
Recommendation
Make all 3 trial LTNs permanent due to improvements in active travel, reduced traffic, and safety benefits.
### St. Ann's LTN
1. *Traffic Reduction*: Achieved a 57% reduction in traffic on internal roads, equating to 35,834 fewer vehicles per day, with a modest 5% increase on boundary roads.
2. *Active Travel*: Encouraged dockless cycling with 15,500 trips starting or ending in the area monthly.
3. *Air Quality*: Observed minor changes in air quality, with no significant statistical impact.
4. *Safety Improvements*: Reduced collisions by 29% on internal roads and 21% on boundary roads.
5. *Public Feedback*: Mixed views but growing support for walking, cycling, and safety enhancements.
6. *Recommendation*: Make the trial permanent due to improvements in active travel, reduced traffic, and safety benefits.
### Bounds Green LTN
1. *Traffic Reduction*: Saw a 66% reduction in traffic on internal roads (16,076 fewer vehicles daily) with a minor 2% increase on boundary roads.
2. *Active Travel*: Increased dockless cycling by 9,000 trips monthly, though traditional cycling dipped due to weather.
3. *Air Quality*: Minimal changes, with no significant statistical variation observed.
4. *Safety Improvements*: Collisions decreased by 50% on internal roads and 17% on boundary roads.
5. *Public Feedback*: Mixed responses, with an increase in support for quieter, safer streets.
6. *Recommendation*: Support permanent implementation, highlighting gains in reduced traffic, active travel, and safety.
### Bruce Grove West Green LTN
1. *Traffic Reduction*: Achieved a 51% reduction in internal road traffic (43,316 fewer vehicles daily) with a slight 3% rise on boundary roads.
2. *Active Travel*: Cycling rose by 33%, supported by dockless bike use.
3. *Air Quality*: Slight improvement in nitrogen dioxide levels on internal and boundary roads.
4. *Safety Improvements*: Collisions reduced by 56% on internal roads and 18% on boundary roads.
5. *Public Sentiment*: Improved acceptance and satisfaction with walking, cycling, and reduced noise levels.
6. *Recommendation*: Make permanent due to substantial reductions in traffic and safety benefits.
[Report of the Director for Environment and Resident Services. To be introduced by Cabinet Member for Climate Action, Environment & Transport.
“Consider all feedback, objections and monitoring data of the trial LTNs and decide whether to make permanent the associated traffic orders.”]
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Don on
-
Couldn’t agree more with Niall — a 57% reduction in, say, 100 cars an hour inside the St Ann’s LTN is far outweighed by a 5% increase in, say, 15,000 cars an hour on West Green Road (these are guesstimate figures, of course; the actual traffic counts are probably buried in the paperwork). The vast majority of St Ann’s had almost no traffic to begin with and was always safe to walk, scoot or cycle in, barring three roads which could have been dealt with as effectively by chicanes and peak-time traffic filters. The Bounds Green LTN was created by Haringey solely in retaliation for Enfield’s creation of an LTN on the other side of the boundary, which displaced so much traffic (the famed LTN “evaporation”) into Haringey that the residents cried out for some relief from it.
The “experiment” was always a con, as the council would have had to repay the money it received if the LTNs were abandoned. Much more seriously, repeated promises to deal with the pollution, gridlock and sheer unpleasantness of Green Lanes — which, after all, is the actual root of Harringay’s traffic and public transport problems — have been ignored or abandoned, all because City Hall waved a large cheque in the council’s direction to close side roads and make life worse for anyone on the “boundary” roads.
-
-
Its amazing how people change the past to fit their pre-conceived ideas. Tell those on Avenue Road or Cornwall Road that their streets had almost no traffic to begin with!
Blackboy Lane (now La Rose Lane) had virtually the same level of traffic as West Green Road.
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/st_anns_trans...
-
-
No, I didn’t make it up retrospectively. Cornwall and Avenue Roads and BBL had lots of traffic (though much lower crash statistics than the “boundary” roads) and they are the reason for the LTN, when controls such as chicanes and peak-time traffic filters could have dealt with the problem effectively instead. My comment was about Glenwood, Conway, Avondale, Clarendon, etc, all of which practically had tumbleweed rolling down them in the middle of the day and were never in need of the LTN treatment. See my subsequent comment about schoolchildren learning cycling proficiency every week in Glenwood (along with learner drivers practising reversing round corners on near-deserted roads). At least in St Ann’s, the LTN is a solution in search of a problem.
-
-
But you don't have to go far to find examples that would lead many to disagree.
Woodlands Park Road has about the most aggressive width restriction and chicane you can have, and no one would have suggested that was quiet road pre-LTN. As your prior post covered - Bounds Green shows what happens when you introduce half measures rather than an area wide approach.
St Ann's is bounded on three sides by A roads. It is not a controversial idea that A roads should be the routes that through traffic takes through an area and the council can undertake traffic management to achieve that. St Ann's is a textbook case for an LTN.
-
-
Woodlands was a quiet road during the day pre LTN . I used to give cycling lessons to primary school kids there. We used the Cranleigh junction, the whole of Woodlands and the surrounding roads for all sorts of drills/practice. Never lost any of them to traffic accidents/speeding cars. It was a quiet road.
-
-
It must have been you and the children I saw regularly from my windows, then!
-
-
The theory of moving traffic to A roads would hold water if those roads were fit for purpose. As Julie pointed out in a post, bus travel on WGR has been seriously disrupted by the LTN and Green Lanes (which has been logjammed for years) is even worse. If the plan is to get people onto buses (or walk), then it has to be made more attractive than the alternative of using a car. Haringey has consistently failed to fulfil its promises to deal with GL; bus priority, reduced parking, a northbound bus lane and restrictions on traffic at the North Circular junction would all make a significant difference and if bus travel was easier — with more frequent and reliable services — more people would choose it. Trouble is, this all costs real money, and taking the City Hall shilling to put in CCTV and flower pots on side roads to stop people doing something is cheaper than spending much more money to actively encourage people to do something else instead.
-
-
And what would happen to Glenwood, Conway, Clarendon, etc if they cut out the easy through routes of BBL, the Avenue, etc at peak hours but left those open?
When the St. Ann's LTN came in the Green Lanes end of Carlingford Rd became gridlocked in rush hour from drivers seeking alternative cut-throughs. If it is being done it needs to be done as all or nothing.
-
-
Your Carlingford Rd example mirrors the reported experience of Bounds Green when Enfield put their LTN in: traffic was majorly displaced. The premise of LTNs is just to shift the problem elsewhere, which is exactly what’s happened in both these places. So unless the whole of London within the M25 becomes an LTN — with, perhaps, say just the north and south circular roads and one or two cross-town routes such as Knightsbridge/Piccadilly left open — it’s hard to see how traffic won’t just be shunted from one reluctant borough to the next!
-
-
I live in Carlingford Road and it's a nightmare when there are roadworks. I always have to enter and exit from West Green road and twice in the last couple of months I have not been able to enter/exit at all because of roadworks. To get to Belmont road I have to use West Green and turn left at the traffic lights whereas pre Ltns I would exit at Langham road. And I read an article recently which states exactly that traffic is just shifted from one area to another.
Just as an extra apparently the traffic monitors don't record traffic if moving at less than 10km an hour (round 6miles per hour). So much of the idling traffic may not have been recorded at all.
-
-
And let's not forget the permit situation. Getting rid of day permits and reducing hourly permits to 40 a year is another way of changing the behaviour of the people. Was talking to an elderly couple yesterday who have lived around downhill for years and said that the council are sure of a labour vote round the Ltn areas but not so sure of labour vote round Muswell hill Crouch end and that's why they haven't trialled them there.
-
-
Honestly the council are just something else. I emailed my response as I was asked to, and included a comparative graph of (specifically) nitrogen dioxide from pre Ltns and one year later. It showed a huge increase in no2 on the main roads. How have they measured the effects on side road? They'll probably say they don't have to show us if they have it at all. And a response to the person who says people like me can't be bothered about social justice or pollution because they are in their happy place with their bike. My 91 year old housebound mother needs taking from place to place, all local journeys in a car because wheelchairs are too painful for her. So please think before you label people.
I don't believe the council are being totally honest with their figures. I know that in one Haringey department all the managers were given the heave-ho recently, maybe trying to save money. Or maybe it's a power trip for certain officials. After all they've relabeled themselves 'The Rebel Borough'.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
