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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

So tonight walking home from the tube station, and being the nosy bugger that I am, I noticed a van with an expired CPZ permit.
Expired CPZ permit
And then one with no permit at all.
CPZ detective I
And another.
CPZ detective II
And... another...
CPZ detective III
And this one.
CPZ detective IV
Not to mention these two.
CPZ detective V
CPZ detective VI

After that, I was home. Just how much of this is going on?

Are you happy to pay the increased CPZ charges when some residents are not and that the increased price will lead to more residents adopting this kind of behaviour? I suspect that a third of vehicles parked in Harringay between 6pm and 8am do not have a CPZ permit.

Dear council, please address this issue. Please.

Tags for Forum Posts: CPZ, Harringay

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As you know, John, the "Outer" Wood Green Zone goes to 6.30pm. So it's perfectly legitimate for anyone to park in one of these CPZ bays after the restricted hours. Or are your photos from the "Inner Zone" (which runs till 10pm)?

Are the  Welcome Ambassadors - Traffic Wardens enforcing late hours in the Inner Zone?

Martin Deutsch's Freedom of Information Act question about Cranbrook Park suggests they are. And raking-in the dosh.

Are the longer hours in the Inner zone displacing parking to the Outer Zone? That's one of the questions currently being monitored by the Parking Service.


My point is that the CPZ charges are ONLY paid by residents but (my estimate) a third of them are using but not paying. I think the zone needs to be increased to 10pm.

What you seem to be proposing, John, is a special tax - an excise - on drivers who park outside the hours of a CPZ - hours which are consulted on and legally agreed.

Ah, the romance of these smugglers, secretly negotiating the little coves of Harringay under cover of darkness. To adapt Kipling.

If you wake at midnight, and hear a white van fleet,

Don't go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street.

Them that ask no questions isn't told a lie.

Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlefolk go by!

Five and twenty vehicles,

Circling in the dark,

Friends come round to visit,

Cousins want to park.

Plumbers for a boiler, blokes with pizza pie,

And watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlefolk go by!

Very good Alan. I wonder if you would finally be de-selected by the Labour party if you dared to say in public that the way Haringey spends the surplus from the parking account makes the resident parking permit a tax. It seems like you cling onto the legal description of what a CPZ is despite all indicators to the contrary and I can't think of any other reasons.

John: surely its not the way that Haringey spends any surplus from the Parking Account that makes CPZs a tax, but the size and frequency of those surpluses that make CPZ schemes a tax?


If the big surpluses were spent in the most noble way possible (or left unspent and just left on ice as it were, in a bank), the surpluses would be no less effectively a tax.


If an entire parking account surplus of £1,000 was spent on liquor for the Cabinet Executive* it might be misspending but small beer alongside other forms of taxation.


I am now car-less and I feel sorry for some of the remaining car-owners in Haringey. Unless one uses a car regularly, the per-mile cost of ownership (including depreciation) is huge.


* NB hypothetical example


I guess the fairest way would be a rebate for all CPZ parking permit holders. That would be a shame because I think that the parking permits are contributing to a decrease in car ownership in Harringay and we all regard that as a good thing, right?

The scheme is sold largely on the basis of helping residents with their parking problems; but whichever way you look at it, LBH is still monetizing the bit of road outside your house.

Since Permit Holders are providing the initial capital for the venture, why not declare and distribute a dividend to the shareholders stake-holders after a bumper year? It seems like every year is a bumper year with this scheme; Parking Services could still retain a good proportion in company reserves for expansion.

One advantage of sharing out the profits surpluses, is that there'd be less opposition to CPZs. You'd probably have a big takeup with residents clamouring to invest in the Parking sector, which would enjoy much of the attributes of the utilities sector (reliable, recession-proof profits).


LBH Parking Services Plc  If the council wanted to go the whole hog, they could float 50% of it as a listed company – that'd crystalize a big up-front windfall for the council.

If we assign an arbitrary P/E ratio of 10, it suggests LBH Parking Services Plc could be worth roughly £30,000,000 if floated, and if half sold to the public (with first preference given to applications from Permit Holders) about £15m (less fees) straight into council coffers. With capital growth prospects.

Over time, the council could sell down their remaining stake, depending on their wish for income or capital growth.

Will, the ratio was chosen partly for simplicity of calculation and my valuation assumes earnings (sorry, surplus) of about £3m p.a. But a P/E of 10 is not so far away from the market average.

I have every confidence in this business, the track record of profits surpluses, its growth prospects and the determined way in which the council manages this business.

If the council was prepared to share the benefits by bringing in new investors, I believe that the enterprise could grow more quickly than it would otherwise.

I understand that currently, the wardens merely have targets to meet. If they were incentivised by 50% commission, I believe those  surpluses [ :-)] could be driven forward more robustly.


PS. I understand my neighbour was ticketed recently for briefly double-parking. The car was double-parked for the sole purpose of helping another neighbour, an elderly lady, to attend a funeral.

Is this is another illustration of the commercial potential? I would argue that the lack of compassion demonstrated and the absence of humanity bodes well for future return on capital.

The problem is all inside our heads, John, you will see. The answer is easy if we take it logically. Here’s some advice on where to find a slot that’s free. There must be fifty bays to park your Rover.

You could drive up the kerb, Herb. Or ship it to Spain, Jane. Have you tried a Welsh Hill, Bill? There’s parking for free.

But now you tell me that you’ve driven round all night. And still not found a Ladder bay by morning light. What can I say except it’s time to quit the fight. There must be fifty ways to dump your Rover

You can hop on a bike, Mike. Just give it away, Kay. Make a new plan, Ann. And get yourself free.

Ha ha Alan that's funny, the Paul Simon lyrics.

Your point is nonsensical.


Why should anyone need a permit to park outside the CPZ hours?  If a resident wants to move his car every day, and deal with the tickets when he forgets - well then surely that's the CPZ doing what it's supposed to do.


Or are you complaining about people daring to park in your street?  Or proposing that the zones should apply 24/7?


Malcolm, if this was aimed at me: My point is, i would like the hours extended, so I, as a perit paying resident, have a fair chance to park my car when I get home from work. What's wrong with that? Hoping for a little value for money? Surely no-one would pre-pay at a pay and display car park, and then end up not being able to park at all, because all the spaces are already taken by people who can park for free?



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