Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The £390 cigarette
From the council website:
A man has been fined £390 for throwing a cigarette butt out of his car window onto the street.
The incident happened immediately outside the east Haringey depot where enforcement officers are based.
In October, an officer on his way into work witnessed a driver throw away his cigarette butt into the street. He wrote down the vehicle registration and later served a fixed penalty notice on the named driver for littering.
When this was ignored the driver was given a seven day warning letter. When this was also ignored the officer sent a seven day warning letter to the driver saying if he did not pay he may be prosecuted under Section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
On Monday 9 March 2009 the case was heard in Haringey Magistrates Court, and, in his absence, the defendant was fined £100 plus £15 victim surcharge and awarded costs of £275 awarded to the council.
Total fine for this case was £390.
Oh dear, should have used one of these
or maybe just kept it in his car...
A man has been fined £390 for throwing a cigarette butt out of his car window onto the street.
The incident happened immediately outside the east Haringey depot where enforcement officers are based.
In October, an officer on his way into work witnessed a driver throw away his cigarette butt into the street. He wrote down the vehicle registration and later served a fixed penalty notice on the named driver for littering.
When this was ignored the driver was given a seven day warning letter. When this was also ignored the officer sent a seven day warning letter to the driver saying if he did not pay he may be prosecuted under Section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
On Monday 9 March 2009 the case was heard in Haringey Magistrates Court, and, in his absence, the defendant was fined £100 plus £15 victim surcharge and awarded costs of £275 awarded to the council.
Total fine for this case was £390.
Oh dear, should have used one of these
or maybe just kept it in his car...
Tags for Forum Posts: cigarette litter, enforcement, litter
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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It would be easier to list things people don't complain about.
Start big and work down, topsy turvey in my eyes, as always priorities and all t'cock
If people chose to smoke and become a health risk so be it, some people chose to drink and eat unhealthy, this is not a moral crusade thread : )
BTW Hitler was a veggie but because his system couldn't handle meat not because he was some ethical guru.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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@ Danzigger: I think we're going to have to agree to disagree... But just one last point, You say it's the democratic view not to want litter.. It seems to me that the majority (smokers) don't seem to care.. or if they were asked, which they weren't, they would vote against such a law.. as I said do-gooders 'imposing' their will on others.. A we know best attitude.
The only two places that I can ever remember being 'really' litter free (cigarette butts) were the German Democratic Republic and Singapore... two shining examples of democracy..
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I can't agree with this either. Virtually all the smokers I know are happy to keep their butts to themselves and even carry portable ashtrays. Smoking related litter is still litter and can have no special exemption.
Litter is not a personal freedom, its an a crime against the environment. Look at Germany, maybe not perfect but with sensible and intelligent responses to the issue of waste management. Not a fascist state but a shining example of green management, nudge politics (much of which you have shown to us yourself). That's what we want, not a laissez faire attitude and lack of political will to solve the problem.
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@Liz, You might think our positions are poles apart - but they are not.. I wasn't going to mention the Germans on this one ;o)
The Germans haven't achieved what they have litterwise by fining people, making examples, scapegoating.. They do/did it as I said earlier, by education.. I disapprove strongly of 'strong armed', call it perhaps 'bully boy' tactics of the authorities ... A fine of 390 pounds is a ludicrous amount for such an offence.. I'm afraid it all has more to do with revenue than litter.. and spin (what used to be known as 'propaganda'). I'd much prefer to see fifty people get fined 30 pounds than bang one with 390.. But that was the desired affect... and in the long term will do nothing, I repeat nothing for the litter problem..
I honestly believe you are all barking up the wrong trees (excuse me saying that) on this..
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But he was fined a fixed penalty notice, probably 50 quid. The point is he didn't pay and the enforcement officers didn't let it lie but took him to court. He ended up with a fine of £390 because he ignored the fine. This is a common response to fines in Haringey, I'm afraid. It's not bully boy to expect people to accept that they have been caught doing something against the law and pay the fine. What ever happened to 'Its a fair cop'? I repeat that unlike parking, this is unlikely to be a revenue stream but if it is good. It costs this country a fortune to clear up after people. (and Germans do fine people, they caught my family for jaywalking once :) )
But on the point about a better approach, we can agree and the point has been made in a recent report that certain things such as
*enforcement measures e.g. penalty fines need to be more consistent nationwide.
* creating a national body for anti-litter initiatives as well as a deposit scheme for bottles and cans, which has proved to be successful in other countries.
* better design of public spaces, placing bins and ashtrays more thoughtfully
can be carried out as public policy of which enforcement is but one strand.
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You see if you were really interested in getting rid of litter - you wouldn't wasting time and energy fining people-.. That's not the answer...
You can't force anyone to do anything.. People have to want to do it.. That's my point.. all your fining, just like for speeding, parking, etc., won't change a thing...
And that old chestnut.. jaywalking!! Yes, the Germans are more disciplined and don't cross the road on red lights.. They wait for green..even when no traffic is coming.. although it's not as extreme as was over 20 years ago.. But that said, we have many, many more controlled crossings than in the UK.. If you cross on a red light.. you are breaking the law just like a driver who drives through... does it change anything ...no.. !!
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Permalink Reply by Danzigger on
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I think that "they" have been quite successful in reducing drink driving and enforcing the use of seatbelts. They were enforced by fines.
Also smoking in pubs and restaurants, industrial pollution and owning handguns. What about bear baiting? Cock fighting? How many examples would you like? These practices may not have been eradicated by law enforcement, but they were controlled and public attitude towards them changed very quickly.
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Phew this thread is hard work... just as a relaxation and a teency bit OT..
Liz mentioned jaywalking in Germany..
The Germans laugh at it themselves..
The traffic light turned red so we had to turn back again...
Or Real criminals cross on RED
And we have the opposite to Boris' plan... to make the waiting easier
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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That made sense - i couldn't understand anything anyone was saying til that last vid.
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