Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The £390 cigarette
From the council website:
A man has been fined £390 for throwing a cigarette butt out of his car window onto the street.
The incident happened immediately outside the east Haringey depot where enforcement officers are based.
In October, an officer on his way into work witnessed a driver throw away his cigarette butt into the street. He wrote down the vehicle registration and later served a fixed penalty notice on the named driver for littering.
When this was ignored the driver was given a seven day warning letter. When this was also ignored the officer sent a seven day warning letter to the driver saying if he did not pay he may be prosecuted under Section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
On Monday 9 March 2009 the case was heard in Haringey Magistrates Court, and, in his absence, the defendant was fined £100 plus £15 victim surcharge and awarded costs of £275 awarded to the council.
Total fine for this case was £390.
Oh dear, should have used one of these
or maybe just kept it in his car...
A man has been fined £390 for throwing a cigarette butt out of his car window onto the street.
The incident happened immediately outside the east Haringey depot where enforcement officers are based.
In October, an officer on his way into work witnessed a driver throw away his cigarette butt into the street. He wrote down the vehicle registration and later served a fixed penalty notice on the named driver for littering.
When this was ignored the driver was given a seven day warning letter. When this was also ignored the officer sent a seven day warning letter to the driver saying if he did not pay he may be prosecuted under Section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
On Monday 9 March 2009 the case was heard in Haringey Magistrates Court, and, in his absence, the defendant was fined £100 plus £15 victim surcharge and awarded costs of £275 awarded to the council.
Total fine for this case was £390.
Oh dear, should have used one of these
or maybe just kept it in his car...
Tags for Forum Posts: cigarette litter, enforcement, litter
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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If he doesn't , perhaps he could do community service on Green Lanes, picking up every single butt including the ones stuck in the cracks that the street cleaners ignore...using only a pair of tweezers. Rough Justice? Oh yes...
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The city is far worse than Harringay.
If one million people commit a crime and only one person is prosecuted for it... what is that person? What is the person prosecuting them?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's filthy throwing your cigarette butts in the street but I think it's worse allowing an official to pursue someone in this way in an obviously personal vendetta. Yuck.
Yeah go on now, "if he'd just paid the fine on time" etc.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Here here dude.
Easy pickings in my opinion and although I don't condone this act of littering, I would much prefer a high prosecution rate for fly tippers and waste of a more substantial bulk - but that takes money and effort! Could you get fined for dropping ash from a butt? It's a bit like illegal parking and dangerous traffic violations - which is easier and which is an easy revenue source?
You could park a car outside any pub in Haringey and make a mint for no effort whatsoever, my personal priority is not fag ends but substantial litter and fly tipping.
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Permalink Reply by alistairj on
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Given the amount of litter in Haringey in general (and usually far more obvious than a cigarette butt), do we know how many people actually are fined per year, say? (or was this particular person difficult to ignore as he committed his offence "outside the east Haringey depot where enforcement officers are based"?).
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I really don't think that we can complain that there is no enforcement and then show cynicism when they actually carry out their job. I agree that there are also bigger fish to fry but cigarette litter is by the far the most prevalent form of litter and I for one applaud the action.
One butt may seem like nothing but this is really about sending out high profile messages about the unacceptability of the practice. If the enforcement officer had ignored this blatant offence and failed to follow through, they would have been condemned for not doing their job properly. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. To suggest a personal vendetta would assume the officer knew or had a grudge against the offender which I think would be grounds for contesting the case...which the person did not...and by that stretch, every time an officer actually pursues someone to the full of extent of their powers, is it to be suggested that the officer has made it personal and should leave off? If our Patrick S actually manages to get an HMO converted back using all his legal powers, will you then turn around and say 'obviously got something against that landlord as he doesn't do anything about the one in my street.'
Are we all suffering from the Nirvana Fallacy which states, that if you can't get every offender you might as well do nothing since perfection will never be achieved?
btw I wouldn't say litter pursual is a revenue winner unless you can carry out on the spot fines, since the officer hours spent pursuing this probably amount to more than 390 quid, but even if it is, I wouldn't mind getting back off the litterers something of the tax millions that this country pays cleaning up after them. £390 quid would do for starters.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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I'm not a smoker - have never smoked in my life and I really hate litter... But (and there always is a but) .. where is this all going to end..?
The whole thing smacks of living in a Fascist/Communist State.. I would like to point out that the Nazis were the first to flirt with anti-smoking campaigns. (BTW, one of the reasons that it's so difficult to legislate in the Federal Republic of Germany on this)
Those who 'think they' know better, forcing their point of view on others. The world isn't perfect - why can't we accept that? The Nazis also longed and tried to make it a perfect place too (the essence of Nazism) and we know where that all ended..
I agree, I think going after the bigger fish who fly-tip throw rubbish in other people's gardens is the way to go .. and not chase after the easy-prey..
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on
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Hitler was also a vegetarian but I guess you aren't linking that to being bad ;-)
I agree with Liz, you have to start somewhere. We all go on about enforcement (recently traffic but on many other issues). If we start trying to prioritise what gets enforced we will spend all day debating and nothing will get done. Far better to pick something, ANYTHING, and do it. Then a message will be sent and may impact on the other issues.
With regards to the revenue, again, if reveneue generation (over the cost of enforcement) is put into the specific issue (say advertising against litter, more bins, more frequent emptying) then it should help both ends.
To use the arguement that it would be only worth doing it if we can catch all of them would equate to catching everyone who goes above 70 on the motorway as opposed to the miniscule proportion who are stopped.
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In terms on blots on the landscape fag ends are not the leading offender. I would much rather one prosecution for fly tipping than for ten for fag ends. It would take tens of thousands of fag ends to build up the mass to that of a rogue fridge-freezer. It’s all dropping litter, yes but how do you compare 35mph or 50mph in a 30mph zone? I have my priorities and it isn’t half smoked cigarettes.
It could become a massive revenue source should the council wish, if it makes money then it’s worth it for them, just look how many parking attendants we have in compassion to other violations.
It’s all to do about personal priorities and this aint mine, sorry.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Nothing worse than ex-smokers banging on about current smokers. It becomes the new obsession.
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No Anthony nothing to do with veggies..
The connection was with 'small men trying to be big' - don't we call obsessive council officials 'Little Hitlers' ?
Turning the country in a control society is NOT the way forward.. One of the greatest qualities of Britain 'used to be' that people were continually complaining about things, that generally didn't get done. It never harmed society then.. And do you remember the saying - live and let live? Sounds quite twee these days doesn't it...?
.....Far better to pick something, ANYTHING, and do it. Then a message will be sent and may impact on the other issues...
What you are suggesting is just 'Spin' - the way the country has learnt do things since 1997..
As I said before, Making scapegoats out of people - is not the way forward - a fair and just way is.. as well as Education of young kids about the environment.. I'm afraid the current generation has probably 'been lost'..
Otherwise, you never know, you might just get caught at something someday .. that is of course, assuming you are not perfect.
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This is not about being anti-smoking and you are wrong to equate this story with being anti-smoking or rather insultingly suggesting that it is a prissy crusade from an ex smoker. As far as I'm concerned, smoke all you wish, suffer premature death and disease (like my grandparents) and keep paying those extortionate taxes to pay for your hospital bed. Just put your ruddy ends in the bin, that is surely not flirting too far with fascism? Why must smokers be made a special case? Okay to throw toxic little butts down on the ground but not okay to allow dogs to poo anywhere? Why?When my little one is walking down the street, is it the discarded sofa he tries to pick up, or the interesting little orange bits of paper? What special pleading do we have for smokers that makes them exempt?
And if this is such easy prey, why is this first time that I have heard of a prosecution? Surely if it was such an easy way to raise a bit of cash, the council would be out making up their deficit in funds?
This story is about the way that people treat their immediate environment. The lack of respect is the same whether it's a cig butt, a coke can or a fridge. It's not necessary, it's unpleasant and its anti-social. However, following your line of thought, why bother attempting to stop people from doing anything? If someone pays their taxes, why not let them litter? In the long run, they pay for the clean up. If some people find their behaviour anti-social, so what? It's all about personal freedom, isn't it?
Why bother chasing fly tippers? The message about fly tipping isn't getting through, so why not take it on the chin, do away with enforcement and simply clear up after people like a bunch of little kids? If you don't mind paying for it. You clearly don't mind about the amount of money it costs to pick up these minor annoyances like cigarette litter or chewing gum say, so why worry about a fridge/TV etc. Its just city life after all. We'll save money on employing enforcement officers to do their job and maybe they can work for enterprise to ensure a better service on clearing away the big stuff.
Speaking of kids, the problem is not the kids. It's not fair to blame education. The kids get it rammed down their throat, morning, noon and night. Then they leave school and see their elders and betters old mattresses, fag butts, drinks cans, etc littering their route home. So what do they learn? Don't do as I do, do as I say? If kids try to be responsible, its prissy, goody, goody. Only real social rebels chuck their cig butts down, leave their cans on walls, scatter their chicken bones around. That's what the adults do...come on, I worked with teens for years. They know all about it but they wanna be like the real grown ups who chuck their fag ends out of windows, leave their tvs in the street, dump their rubble in a side street.
If you are thinking that I am utterly amazed at the attitudes expressed in this thread, you would be right . Smokers don't get special treatment, they break the law, they get done. The Law shouldn't be about how big the offence is. If cig butts are not worth pursuing then do away with the legislation, don't criticise people for doing what they are paid for or equate them with murderous regimes and evil dictators.
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