Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Tax Dodging Bill Campaign and Meeting with Catherine West
Hi all,
I hope you've been enjoying the few moments of sun recently!
I campaign with ActionAid and thought I'd do a post about the Tax Dodging Bill Campaign in the hope that some of you may be interested in getting more involved. It follows on from the Towns Against Tax Dodging Campaign with which I was involved and wrote a blog about my event Love Haringey Hate Tax Dodging. I'm not sure if the links work on here so you can find out more on the website: www.taxdodgingbill.org.uk
The Tax Dodging Bill Campaign, recently launched, is doing really well so far with over 50,000 supporters! For those of you who don't know - it's a coalition campaign with a whole range or organisations calling on the elected government to introduce a stand along piece of legislation, within the first 100 days of coming into power (The Tax Dodging Bill).
We recently organised a photo opportunity in Westminster for MP's to come and have their photo taken to show support. We had about 40 MPs come down with only around 48hrs notice! Here's a great blog written by Murray, the Tax Justice Campaign Manager at ActionAid, talking about how big the issue has become recently!
The next big ask for supporters is to contact prospective parliamentary candidates (those running to be MPs), asking them to contact their party leaders and show support for the bill ahead of the election. You can do this here via the website - it's really easy - you just type in your postcode and it's all ready to be sent.
For those of you who are even more interested were also trying to arrange meetings with candidates (under the 'Do More' tab) to ask them for their support in person - this is really important as it shows candidates that we, as constituents, care about how we are represented.
I've already been to a meeting in a small group, with Catherine West - running to be a Labour MP for Hornsey and Wood Green, and the meeting went really well. If anyone feels like coming to a meeting you can find a list of them on the website, or you can arrange your own and post it so that others can see and go with you. As the Local Coordinator for Haringey, I am happy to meet with anyone who wants to do this, and can go to the meeting with you. There will in fact be another meeting coming up with Gordon Peters, who is running to be a Green MP for Haringey. Will post this on the website for anyone who wants to come.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Nothing wrong with paying cash for services, it's up to the trader to declare the income on their tax return. You would be wise to get a receipt, as our very own shadow Chancellor reminded us this very week, he even gets receipts for haircuts.
I hope the landlords can be audited by comparing the electoral roll, the Land Registry info, power supply + utilities companies, and their tax returns. A few questions to the tenants would flush out any discrepancy re what they say and what they do. I hope there is a troupe of people out there gathering this info.
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Permalink Reply by Sophie on
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The Tax Dodging Bill is designed to stop big corporations avoiding tax that they should be paying. Companies like Starbucks, Amazon, Google, SAB Miller etc. Neither the website or the post I wrote said anything about targetting small business owners or traders - you would have seen that if you had read a bit more before posting your response.
Towns Against Tax Dodging was about supporting small local businesses who are unable to compete with huge multinationals who pay large sums of money to accountants who tell them how to pay less.
So no, I don't propose clamping down on those people who pay their cleaners, child minders, handymen and builders in cash and then all the shop keepers, taxi drivers and market traders.
I agree with what pamish says - it's up to the business owner/ trader to declare their income on their tax return.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Osbawn, the laws to do that already exist. Whether they are applied or not is of course debatable. What some of these big companies are doing is in some cases breaking the law but in a lot of cases avoiding pay tax quite legally by using arcane legislation from collonial days, the kind of legislation that exists no where else in the world. I suppose whether you support this campaign is if you think it is morally right for them to do so and if you think these laws should be changed.
It's also a question of scale. Changing the law will force a relatively small number of companies to pay a fairer share of tax that could amount to multiple billions. Enforcing cash in hand transactions would involve the enfocement agianst the entire population of the UK to gain relatively small amounts of money (the handing over of £30 to a cleaner or a tenner to have your windows cleaned comes to mind).
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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But is it reasonable to expect large companies to adhere to a standard of morality that we individuals in many cases scorn ?
In my view, morality is absolute and doesn't depend on the amounts involved.
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But John, in most cases we don't scorn them. All of my income tax and NI contributions are taken at source by my employer. All the VAT I pay is included in the price of the goods I purchase. My bank takes tax from the 0.5% interest on the paltry balance in my account. I think this applies to the vast majority of individual citizens in this country. The level of tax avoidance by some large companies is more than the gross national product of a number of countries in the world and if collected could be put to use to better the lives of all of us living here.
You are of course correct, that two wrongs don't make a right. But I do think there needs to be a bit of pragmatism in this debate. A change in the law could net all of us many billions of pounds at modest expenditure. Chasing the small individual transactions where tax is not paid, which I agree is wrong, may end up cost as much or more than the money recouped.
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Agreed. So let's change the law but, until then, we should stop castigating the large companies for seeking quite legally, to minimise their tax burden.
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Yes, legally is quite correct but the debate is whether legally is right. To put in in context, the second largest city in the UK, Birmingham, spends something like billion pounds a year on all of the services provided by the council to it's 1 million and a bit citizens. That's schools, social housing, social care, roads, waste and so on. If companies here paid tax in the same way that they are expected to do in in many other countries, ithe income would be more than the entire running costs of many Birmingham sized cities. Surely that's a campaign worth supporting.
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You miss my point Michael. I support the campaign but I'm not happy that companies are vilified for operating within the law as it is at present. If you were Director of Finance in a company and you said to your boss " I can save you a billion pounds on your tax bill by exploiting a loophole in the regulations but I don't think it's morally justified so I'm not going to do it. " where would you look for your next job ?
I'm also concerned about the proposed timetable of 100 days after the election. If we rush through legislation this complex and far-reaching without allowing adequate time for consultation, and scrutiny of the drafting, who knows what new loopholes will be overlooked ?
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I think your point of a cultural change being needed is really relevant, and is what will push governments to act. But it's not going to come from children and their citizenship classes (although I do get your point), it's coming right now from people all over the UK and elsewhere - right before a general election - 50,000 people have already signed up to support the bill. And in fact a poll by ComRes found that 73% of people want the next UK government to legislate to discourage tax avoidance in developing countries. And 82% want the next government to increase penalties against UK companies who avoid tax.
I agree that helping children understand these issues can help for future generations - but what message is being sent if we have a change to do something now, with it having become so high profile an issue, and we don't?
I acknowledge that, Osbawn and John, you said you do support the campaign, but think that the bill may be rushed or that companies are being vilified for acting within the law (currently). The first 100 days part is asking for a time commitment essentially - to make sure they stick to any commitment made. And in terms of companies being vilified, I don't think that's a bad thing - if big companies and brands choose to fix their books etc. to pay less that what they should, to society, then they should expect people to be angry - I bet Jimmy Carr won't be dodging his tax again. This particular campaign approach is not about organising sit-ins in shops, or calling for boycotts, it's very much a policy campaign, changing the rules at the top using people power at the bottom.
Considering the fact that developing countries loose three times as much money through tax dodging as they receive in aid every year, I hope that we can get some form of bill introduced, regardless of the teething problems - it's something that we must push for now.
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Permalink Reply by Albert Ross on
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No lets not stop castigating them. Just as extra securities are required for business bank accounts organisations and institutions of all kinds have a higher burden of responsibility than individuals. These responsibilities are amplified as the sums and the impact on society of their actions increase too.
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All very well as far as it goes - but do you have a draft of the bill ?
Otherwise it comes down to " why doesn't somebody do something ? "
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Hi John,
You can find information on what the bill is proposing on this link:
http://taxdodgingbill.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/15.01.26-Ta...
It's a document outlining what a Tax Dodging Bill should cover
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