Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Should other Haringey residents give Local MPs their personal views on the Gaza Tragedy?
I've begun composing letters to our local MPs David Lammy and Catherine West about today's BBC news on Gaza and linked issues. I suggest that other HoL members consider writing or emailing independently with their own personal messages, with their thoughts and feelings on the topic.
To be precise the news item I listened to also referred to the expected visit to London of the President of Israel. It reported too, on a massive leaflet drop on Gaza City calling on all residents to move south to a supposed "safe" area. Despite this news bulletin describing the lack of water and food there. Also reports from a few Gaza City residents that they have family members physically unable to move.
That news bulletin also included "experts" who claimed that Israel was not practising genocide. And that the Israeli Attack Forces were targeting buildings and not people.
To be fair to the BBC's own journalist, she did press hard on these various "expert" claims.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
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THE New Labour Government continues to risk being seen as complicit in what is widely regarded as genocide.
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Permalink Reply by Con
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Many would consider Startmer's Government as being complicit considering that the British military have provided coms, overwatch & and surveillance to Israelis armed forces in Gaza.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_and_the_Gaza_war#:~:te...
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Israel doesn't target civilians. The IDF takes determined efforts to avoid civilian casualties (evidence flyers, broadcasts and phone messages warning civilians ahead of military operations). Hamas, on the other hand, deliberately target civilians; men, women and children. This is the objective truth as evidenced through the 7 October massacre when Hamas murdered innocent people because of who they were and more recently when Hamas inspired terrorists murdered civilians at a bus stop again fir no reason other than them being Israelis. No amount of propaganda, hate marches and stupid stickers will change that. The only genocide is that being perpetuated by Iran and its proxies across the Middle East.
One day, many people will look back in shame at what they have said and done in support of 'the Palestinian people'.
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Permalink Reply by George
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Iris you're in denial, have you missed the last 700+ days of mass civilian casualties inflicted by Israel? I accept it's almost certainly a waste of time trying to reason with you despite the mountains of evidence that quite frankly make your post look deeply delusional. The world's leading association of genocide scholars has declared that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and even the Israeli military’s own data indicates civilian death rate of 83% in Gaza war... https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/reveal. Those who continue supporting Israel will be the ones who'll be shamed for generations to come, although I doubt many have the capacity to feel it.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton
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George, could you help me out, please? I could not get the Gardian link you gave to work; showing civilian death rates in Gaza according to Israeli figures.
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P.S. George, the second link you gave did work on my PC. It reported on the killing of two unarmed Palestinian young men who were murdered by Israeli snipers hidden in a nearby building. The description in The Guardian sickened me.
Hopefully Starmer read it with a similar visceral impact. If he didn't then the sooner he resigns the better.
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Alan, the second link, also from the Guardian (IDF snipers admit targeting civilians), is below from MarkC.
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I guess that makes us even Alan. The description and hours of video footage proudly taken by the terrorist animals on 7 October sickened me. Watching babies put into microwave ovens, guns shot off in women's vaginas and men's anuses, rapes, torture... Spare me your crocodile tears for those "two unarmed young men".
Pro tip: Any data supplied by Hamas is propaganda. Any thing reported by The Guardian is propaganda. Especially so when it comes to the numbers of Gazan deaths because Hamas knows that suckers like you and half the people here--but most importantly, the corporate media--will lap it up.
I did, however, find the work of a professor at Wharton to be credible inasmuch as he persuasively laid out how the Hamas reported Gazan death rates are statistically impossible--BTW I get it that he's Jewish and therefore the Islamist Anti-Semites here will immediately ignore:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-mi...Even Hamas eventually admitted they were lying--according to sources brave enough to dare report it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/04/01/hamas-drops-thous...
I want you to tell me why it is that if these Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are so victimised, why it is that Egypt doesn't want any of them and has strengthened their wall to keep them out of the Sinai and why it is Jordan doesn't want them, even though Jordan, if anywhere, is their actual "homeland". (Hint: Read up on how the "Palestinians" tried to overthrow the royal family there for a starting point as to why).
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"Genocide scholars". What a croc. I remember the "51 Intelligence Experts" who told us Hunter BIden's laptop was "Russian disinformation." Invariably, The Guardian is the authoritative source. It always is for you Marxist-Islamists, and in this instance, they have self appointed themselves "Genocide scholars" just like a guy from Kansas appointed himself The Almighty Oz.
Why is it that in every credible information source I am reading that Israel has supplied an average of one ton of food for every Gazan? I don't remember Hitler doing something like this during the siege of Leningrad, or Stalin doing something like this during the Ukraine famine that he caused (not an exhaustive list of examples). And why should I care? The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians put Hamas into power. Play stupid games; win stupid prizes.
I haven't missed the last 700 days of anything George. I will never have shame for supporting the right to exist of a nation that existed for 1000s of years exactly where it is now (I know reading isn't your strong skill, but it's pretty well chronicled in what is called the Old Testament or Talmud). You can use all the talking points you want that you are encouraged to use by the websites you read ("genocide", "genocide" ,"genocide") but your reasoning and persuasiveness is as seductive as St. Greta's new bad haircut.
I want to know why the Arabs who--since 1965 when Yassar Arafat deemed that should be their name--call themselves "Palestinians" are somehow a "race" that can be the subject of a "genocide"?
I want to know why a murderous invasion into Israel that killed thousands should not be met with retaliation. Why is it you don't care about those "civilian casualties" George? Let's have some cogent reasoning. But I am not holding out hope; nothing personal, but your reasoning is as blurry as your avatar.
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My thanks to both Clive Carter and Iris Allan for taking the trouble to reply. I am not a genocide scholar but I've read those who are and who take a view that tallies with Clive Carter.
But for me the immediate issue is to stop the killing. Even among scholars who differ on genocide , I doubt that very few endorse the killing of babies, children and their mothers - whether by bombs, bullets, starvation, disease, or lack of clean water or medical treatment.
George, of course I agree with you. But hopefully there's a way to make facts speak and which takes us all beyond revenge and murder.
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NETANYAHU's government may not have an official declared policy to target civilians.
But does his govt. tell the whole truth?
Limiting the supply of food, water, medicine or electricity in Gaza is collective punishment and is the least indirect way to target civilians.
IDF's actions in Gaza appear so careless that, in order to target a suspected Hamas fighter they are ready and willing—as co-lateral damage—to kill civilians without limit to number. This kind of killing has continued for many months.
If the Israeli government believes that Palestinian civilians could be relations of Hamas members, or children who could grow up to be fighters, then it is not a huge stretch for IDF-Netanyahu to believe that those civilians may as well be killed too.
The way in which members of Hamas are targeted is consistent with such an informal or unspoken policy (although I saw a comment by an Israeli that killing 1,000 Palestinians would be worth it to kill one member of Hamas. Is such sentiment rare in Israel?).
I support neither Iran nor Hamas. But far too slowly, the UK and US administrations are starting to see the utter recklessness of the actions of Netanyahu's shameless, genocidal government.
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IDF snipers admit targeting civilians https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-family-torn-...
People from other countries joining the IDF then committing murder. How you can justify this?
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