Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Should other Haringey residents give Local MPs their personal views on the Gaza Tragedy?
I've begun composing letters to our local MPs David Lammy and Catherine West about today's BBC news on Gaza and linked issues. I suggest that other HoL members consider writing or emailing independently with their own personal messages, with their thoughts and feelings on the topic.
To be precise the news item I listened to also referred to the expected visit to London of the President of Israel. It reported too, on a massive leaflet drop on Gaza City calling on all residents to move south to a supposed "safe" area. Despite this news bulletin describing the lack of water and food there. Also reports from a few Gaza City residents that they have family members physically unable to move.
That news bulletin also included "experts" who claimed that Israel was not practising genocide. And that the Israeli Attack Forces were targeting buildings and not people.
To be fair to the BBC's own journalist, she did press hard on these various "expert" claims.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Markc
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IDF snipers admit targeting civilians https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-family-torn-...
People from other countries joining the IDF then committing murder. How you can justify this?
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How you can justify this?
Someone who deems The Guardian outside of its arts section as credible and authoritative is someone who is an unserious person and, quite often, and ignoramous.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton
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Hello Mark Michaels. But I don't understand the meaning of the comment you posted earlier. Please help me out - or if you want to accept another way to of saying it - assume I am an unserious person and an ignoramus.
The Guardian reprinted some data on civilian deaths in Gaza, sourced from the Israeli Government. Was that data from a specialist Department of unserious statisticians and ignoramuses? A second report about the shooting of two Palestinian brothers appears based on a careful and complex investigation, Are the two snipers ingnorant? Or is it the two brothers?
Or perhaps its their grieving family members who are unserious?Or maybe you think the whole scenario belongs in the Guardian Arts Section as a play acted out on the streets of Gaza and which everyone concerned should now stand up and take a bow?
Or am I being absurdly unserious in the extreme and failing to see an obvious factual reality? That whatever supposed facts and or evidence are offered you prefer to dismiss in favour of an interpretation which supports the Israeli Government - Come what may? If that's your plain honest truth then I'd welcome hearing it from you yourself in print here.
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Mark Michaels - you really come across as a nasty little man.
You criticise people quoting the guardian, but are happy to cite the old testament as an accurate, reliable information source. Do me a favour.
Saying that everything that contradicts your view is propaganda doesn't make you right.
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I also don't believe that many people who are now condemning Israel are supporters of Hamas and have condoned their actions. However, many supporters of Israel's retaliation seem to take pleasure in the killing of residents of Gaza. Some of the comments I have seen are grotesque.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
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THE recent actions of Netanyahu's government—in attacking Doha and trying to kill some members of Hamas—appear to have (deliberately) scuppered any talks of peace or ceasefire, for the foreseeable future.
How reckless is it when one party to peace talks actually bombs the other party in situ in another country?
It implies bad faith; even Trump was moved to utter a few words of chastisement.
It's unlikely to happen, but were the US to halt military support to Netanyahu's government, the killing might reduce, even if the bitter hatred on both sides continues.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Capozzola
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Iris.
Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
It’s all true what you wrote and not enough people can see this.Bravo
Mike Capozzola
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Total agreement with another HoL member is of course your prerogative, Mike. But it doesn't add anything new to this thread, does it? The Mike Capozzola website says you're Italian-American and a comedian who's visited many countries. Have you experience in Palestine?
I was never in Gaza - which was administered by Egypt when I worked briefly nearby. But many years ago I made very short visits to Palestinian towns and areas and remember only welcoming courtesy.
Do you know the work of your fellow New Yorker the historian Norman Finkelstein? He made a five year study of Gaza before the Hamas atrocity. More recently he gave an update talk at a church in Missisippi which you may find illuminating.
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I’m a proud Italian American Jew, originally from New York and living locally in Crouch End.
I’ve been to Israel four times and was about to visit again on October 8 2023 when Hamas committed their brutal, barbarous cowardly act of terrorism, murdering and raping farmers and concertgoers of all ages.
Nothing good, can come from treating Hamas with anything but a firm hand that decisively removes them from the face of the earth.
as a side note, I just want to make it clear, separately that I deplore Donald Trump.
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"treating Hamas with anything but a firm hand", Is starving and bombing indiscriminately a firm hand? Palestinian children are not Hamas, Palestinian mothers and other civilians are not Hamas or is it like some zionist commentators advocate that all Palestinians including women and children should be removed from the face of the earth.
It is possible to condemn both the October 8th murders and utterly condemn the ongoing genocide.
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THE intense hatreds are reflected in that both Hamas and Israeli leaders have been indicted as war criminals. They share something else in common: both are bitterly opposed to a two-state solution.
All war is ugly, but there are some rules, often broken, that try to minimise the ugliness: the old Geneva Convention.
One of the striking things in the war is IDF/Netanyahu's readiness—in order to kill one member of Hamas, to kill unlimited numbers of civilians. The destruction has been immense and disproportionate.
Israel's recent double tap attack on a hospital reminded me of IRA tactics.
It is surely a short step from. treating the terrorist group Hamas with a firm hand that decisively removes them from the face of the earth … to …
decisively removing from the face of the earth, Hamas and any family members and any other civilians nearby, in a way that is consistent with genocide.
BBC—Israel's war in Gaza and proportionality.
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Thanks Mike for sharing that extra personal information. Let me swop some of my own experience. My parents were working class Jews from London's badly bombed East End. I first visited Israel - for a year - when a student.
I made friends who were also visitors there. Many near my own age; and some stayed in touch for many years. Visits took place between us across Europe and the U.S. with a few friendships lasting until now.
These include a German man who stayed with me and my family in London. Initially my mother said she worried how she would feel. But, meeting him, said that those feelings went away. And that we were the future.
I can imagine why Norman Finkelstein's style may not be to everyone's taste. If that's the case then I strongly recommend you track down the short free videos of Gabor Mate. Originally from Hungary; now in Vancouver.As a New Yorker you've experienced the richness, warmth, creativity, tolerance and wisdoms which can be fostered and supported within a multiracial city.
We need not choose between death cults.
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