Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Primary School Places/N Harringay School
I read with some dismay the recent news stories regarding the shortfall of primary school places in London, and the numbers of pupils who do not get their first preference for places. My son will start school in September 2012, and I would love to hear first hand from parents who have applied this year. Questions that I have running around my head include:
Has anyone not got a place at all?
How many parents got their first choice of schools?
What criteria did parents use to make their selection eg, location/Ofsted reports etc.
Of the three primary schools within a mile of me, North Harringay seems to rate highest on their Ofsted report, but is the furthest away. South Harringay is closest, but scores much lower. I don't think Ofsted reports alone can tell the whole story - so what would parents recommend?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by sparkle on
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Almost all the areas of the ladder are outside the catchment areas for *any* schools in Crouch End so unless people move here after their children start school there it is not in fact possible to 'go west' in state schools.
The exception to this is the wightman rd side of the top of the ladder, from where it is sometimes possible to get a place at Rokesley(Because it is the least oversubscribed CEnd school and 3 form entry) but this changes year on year, and is definitely not a given).
Birdy, I don't know what you mean about 'neglecting local schools'. It is hardly possible where we live. It must be said that if you are in the catchment zone, by definition it is your local school.
I think your *pet hate* is possibly affecting your perspective on this.
Locally the only active (non fee paying) choice a parent can make other than your local school is a faith school.
I personally do not want to live in a one size fits all society and am perfectly happy for people to exercise their choice. What makes a difference to local schools is motivated parents, not the absence of some who make different choices. That prejudice is my *pet hate*.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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We went through this in 2009, and I agree that it is a bit nerve-wracking, although I must admit we didn't consider not getting a place as all our choices were very local. The schools we opted for were based on how we felt about them when we went to see them, what we'd heard from other parents, and from having a look at the Ofsted report (though as others here say you can't just go on this alone). We opted for South Harringay, for a range of reasons, but would have been happy with North H or Chestnuts.
One thing we liked that hasn't been mentioned here was the fact that SHIS is a separate school to the Junior School, and at the time that felt better to us for our son as it meant he would be in a smaller area with fewer kids of a similar age, if that makes sense. But I know people who have not chosen schools for exactly the same reason, so that clearly isn't an issue for everyone. (He's really happy there by the way).
Good luck with it all.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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This decision last year by the government may have had something to do with the problems that people are facing?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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What I'm not clear about is whether London Baby Booms, like London Property Booms, start off mysteriously from the centre (ref. 'St Thomas's Hospital' in Times article) before gradually/rapidly rippling/spiralling/centrifuging outwards to the periphery. If St Thomas's was bulging in 2001, when did the boom hit the Royal Free? the Whittington? N Middx? Homerton? And when did the Ladder Ladies succumb to the inevitability of it all?
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Louise, many chose not to opt for local schools and wish for their children to travel west of the borough with the weird perception they’ll get a better education and snub their local community. I think it’s a real shame when you cannot get into your local school and there lies a problem.
Germana, read my post carefully (see above). I am having a polite dig at those who don’t chose their local schools not who cannot get into their local schools.
Some on here and in Harringay have a wonderful social conscience until their children are involved and all their ethics go out of the window.
Rachel, I don’t think my perspective is distorted in any way, as I don’t believe our children are better than anyone else’s children is in our area. I believe in community enhancement not economic, educational or social aparthhied thinking somehow we are better than others, we’re not. What are missing form local schools is more local kids who can get in but somehow their parents think they are too special to go there.
I feel for folks who cannot get into their local (ie nearest) school and some of the catchment areas seem very small. Good luck.
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Birdy, where are these fictitious people with huge resources and dodgy ethics who maliciously exclude their children from *local* schools because they think they're too good ? :)
This has a fable like ring to it - seems to be the clarion call of the middle classes(yes, like me) under pressure in schools still predominately populated by children with high levels of need (eg: EAL, temporary housing, refugee status, recently arrived in UK, etc).
You clearly *do* believe some children are of higher value otherwise why beat your chest about those not attending local schools. What magic will these children bring that cannot be made with the children there already?
What you are talking about is *improving* local schools by including in them the children of people more highly resourced who will make a financial or academic (or indeed *cultural*) difference to the intake of the school. As I said before - you need motivated parents, not people who wish they were elsewhere. Much of the desire to insist on the ethics of local school inclusion seems to me to stem from the unspoken real gist of the issue, which is that children from relatively privileged *middle class* type homes are still pretty much the minority in our local schools - and their parents feel this and wish they had more PLUs (people like us) to swim with - because, lets face it - it IS easier to go to a school where the intake is more balanced. (and where there are more parents likely to have the skills to get involved in school issues and events)
What is really being said is ‘I am sending my child to a local school and risking surrounding them with an intake of children likely to be worse off than them - and I want company to make this easier for me’. In fact I demand everyone make the same choices I do other wise it’s not *fair*, its not *ethical*.
You are doing local schools a disservice by focusing on this red herring about what they *might* be like if everyone was forced to a particular school. Guess what- they pretty much are forced to already. And people who want to get around that simply move. I stand by what I said before- it is the motivated parents who make the difference. In any situation it is always the same core group who are involved in the majority of events - look at HOL for example.
It interests me that by definition you(and all of us relatively advantaged parents) have a vested interest in whether these *more advantaged* kids attend your local school - all too often this gets dressed up as wanting to make people ‘contribute to the community’ (schools are not the only way people), help others, etc. Please lets leave the Hyperbole and cut to the chase.
Your arguments are largely those of privilege. You are an able parent with resources and education - you can afford to take risks, and you can offset any potential disadvantage by counterbalancing it with your home environment. Many other local parents actually can’t - they’re not making an ethical choice. This whole debate is a total bypass for them. They are happy to have a local school where their children will be cared about and educated. I bet they couldn’t care less if some people send their children to other faith or private schools. More places for everyone else, and BTW those choosing private will already have paid taxes contributing to local education, and taxes on their income before they pay fees - so actually it could be argued they are contributing more in some ways.
I suggest the real focus should be upon how to genuinely make a difference to the children actually in our local schools. How to include parents from more disadvantaged backgrounds in school events. How to make sure that children from certain cultural groups are not routinely left behind by the time they reach the end of Juniors. How to genuinely make sure that *All* the local children - the ones you say you care about- are able to read confidently by the time they leave(or even *gasp* before they enter!) Junior school.
The battle isn’t over on that: time and again the same groups of children are over represented amongst those failing to meet targets (and no of course it’s not us *middle classers*) .
You can make a difference. That would be by volunteering to read, or be a part time parent helper in class. There are not enough resources in local schools to meet the high levels of need. This is particularly apparent in the Junior curriculum where basic levels of reading and numeracy become a barrier to progress. If you want to look for a reason parents pull their children out of local schools this is it. By the time they reach Juniors progress begins to fall away as the curriculum becomes more dependent on children meeting basic literacy and numeracy goals, which in turn are more affected by issues relating to their home environments. Those with able children begin to feel more and more uncomfortable the closer they get to the end of school and the Secondary entrance issue rears it’s head. And as they realise that actually their child is not getting that much attention, and may be disadvantaged by having so many needy peers- In fact yes they probably would do better in a class of children already at their level. Those with able children have the most to lose in this scenario and this is the point at which you should focus on the potential drain of pupils leaving local schools. (and I’m not talking only white parents here either!)
Sth H juniors has a program to accept adult reading volunteers, also they have an Age Concern link to have older people come in to school and read. Under changes as part of the Freedoms Bill in early 2011 schools are no longer required to have parents CRB checked but many still do. In this instance the CRb check is provided free under guidelines offering this for volunteers(via haringey council).
Anyone interested in volunteering should speak to the deputy head at South Harringay Juniors ,Lillia Mirtchev.
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Permalink Reply by Robin Parker on
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Our nearest school is North Harringey and although the Ofsted reports gave us cause for concern, we put it down as our first choice as (a) it is our nearest and (b) we liked the community-minded approach and other elements when we looked round it and it generally seemed to be 'on the up' if not there yet. I am glad to say we got in as it is now very oversubscribed. other other choices included South Harringey and Noel Park. And really don't know which we'd have been offered if we hadn't got a place.
What is a shame is that the nature of this area means that our son and his friends at nursery and among our friendship group are to be dispersed to a large number of schools.
My advice would be to visit as many as possible but accept that catchment areas are very small. Also look at the pattern of oversubscription in previous years' applications - be realistic and weigh your list in such a way that if you don't get into what is actually your favoured choice, you will still stand a chance in one you would be happy with. Good luck.
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I'm glad I've hit a nerve and far from giving local schools a disservice, I think I am wholeheartedly praising and promoting them as we have seen that those who have shown faith have been rewarded with improving schools, which is what it's all about. You will know lots of people who don't use their local schools through choice rather than not being able to get in, I know loads who chose to neglect NHP to take their children further afield to St Mary's and beyond, why is this? A snapshot of NHP isn't represented in the residents on the catchment area for NHP, I find that really sad.
I don't beat my chest (quite a sexist remark there, but I'm not sensitive so its okay) and don't think children have a higher value than others because choice as you put it means, choice to those who can afford or don't want to mix within their community and want to surround their children with other middle class kids, such are the evils of non middle class kids. You hit on an interesting point and I think you're right many folk see the massive cultural mix of kids at schools in Harringay and get worried that there will not be enough of their 'own kin' for their children to mix with.
Many people who live in Harringay only want to use this community as a base and don't want to use the facilities immediately around it which includes schools, why? Things will only improve when people take pride in their community, as stated previously things are improving due to parents having faith in their own ability to educate outside the school environment as well as the immediate schools that surround them.
Maybe I am one of the privileged around here, but my education was from the state and I think one of life's true lessons is the ability to mix with many folk from all spectrums, this is harder to achieve if you surround yourself with one section of that community.
Like yourself I'm involved with school activity as well as other community stuff, because I believe in that community, warts and all. I don't disagree with much of your latter post and that's why people should be involved to pass their knowledge and enthusiasm on to others.
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Permalink Reply by Germana on
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thanks - had not noticed Earlsmead - will check
actually just checked the map....quite far...but thanks for suggesting it.
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I take your point. I work from home so for me it would be a major hassle to travel that far, although who knows what might happen in the future....
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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This year's primary schools entrants are the first to be processed under the new pan london admissions board (secondary school admissions have been organised on a pan-London basis for a few years)
90pc of pupils across London got one of their top three choices, 79pc got their first choice
They normally publish a borough-by-borough breakdown too but that doesn't necessarily show up acute problems in particular neighborhoods in a borough...
http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/news/current/pressdetail.htm?pk=1282
If there is a systemic shortage of places across HarringayLadder/the Gardens/Crouch End, then is there room at any existing (non-faith) schools in the area to expand to take another form per year? Would be better for the environment and most people's sanity that trekking for two miles across the borough - east or west.
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